HOF Mod to be made compulsory.

[Meatbuster]

As far as I know, requiring the HOF MOD would only seriously hurt people who reload a lot. Participating in the HOF eliminated my bad old reload habit.

Even I play my "regular games" with it now. I don't see how this will hurt.

But here's one for people who are iffy about installing mod: How about still providing a "regular save" so people who don't wanna install the mod can play shadow games?

 

[Danthor]

1) Autolog

This is not very useful for me.

2) Civ4lerts

This I like.

3) Exotic Foreign Advisor

This is an abuse. (aka CHEAT)

4) Modified Domestic Advisor

haven't checked this.

5) Specialist Stacker

Hadn't noticed...

6) Mapfinder

No idea...

 

[Thrallia]

This is an abuse. (aka CHEAT)

how is it a cheat to give you information you can already get, easier?

If you've used it, you'd know that the foreign advisors only tell you info you can get already.

GLANCE: Tells you how everyone feels about each other in a simple numerical matrix.

non-HOF: You can find this out on the main foreign adv. screen, but then you have to hover over every leader, select a different leader, hover over all the leaders again, etc. and then you have to add together all the numbers you wrote down.

ACTIVE: Summarizes every active trade agreement you have with every other civ on one screen. It tells you nothing of the AI agreements with each other.

non-HOF: you can get the same info regardless

RESOURCES: Summarizes every resource you have available, along with how many of each you have. Then it shows in one window, the resources you are exporting to a country, what they will and won't export back to you, the gpt they are willing to give you, and all the resources you are currently importing and exporting for each civ and how much gpt they are giving you/you are giving them

non-HOF: You can figure this out, but it requires many different screens, and possibly even going into the diplo screen to check out all current deals for each AI. Basically it gives you all on one screen information you could get anyway, but won't ever get unless you are patient enough to go through several screens, lots of math, most likely keeping Excel up in the background for your own spreadsheet.

INFO: tells you the current civic status of each AI and the leaders' favorite civics.

non-HOF: you can find the current civic status of an AI every time you go to the diplo screen, but it is tiny boxes at the top of the screen, making it hard to see or read unless you wait for the tooltip to come up. And then you've got to write everything down yourself if you want to remember it to compare with the other civs. Oh yeah, and look in the manual for favored civics, if you didn't know you could know that.

TECHNOLOGIES: This is the only screen I can think of that might get anywhere NEAR cheating, although it is not, as I've found from my last two games using it. It tells you what techs the AI wants from you, what they can currently research, what they have that you don't, and how much total gold they are willing to offer.

However, this has limitations, subject to the data you can actually know. It is easy to see what they want and what they have that you don't, the only info that is harder to find out is what they can currently research...I realized something I'm glad about though during GOTM10 and WOTM1. First, if you cannot research something, then even if the AI can, the advisor won't tell you so. EG. on GOTM10, I went for a cultural victory, and cut off research just before scientific method. At that point I was #2 in tech, and could see everything everyone could research. However, hundreds of years later, every civ showed that they could research the exact same 5 techs, and most had shown that for years. Additionally, I saw units for techs that it didn't show them as being able to research yet. Thus, it takes what they are able to research, by showing the postreqs for any techs they have that you have or could trade for. In other words, not a cheat because it only extrapolates from data you already have but wouldn't figure out unless you have memorized the tech chart perfectly.

non-HOF: You can see what you have that someone doesn't have, and what the AI have and will/won't give you, but to find out exactly the different between you and an AI you must select them. Also, not every AI is visible in one screen, you must scroll to see them. Next, to discover what gold they have, you must enter the diplo screen and write everything down. Finally, to see what they can research(to determine your research path or how close to something like Liberalism they are), you must have absolute knowledge of the tech tree, write down everything they have that you don't and that they want from you, then look in the tech chart to see what things they have the prereqs for.

To sum it all up, it is not cheating, it does not give you any info you couldn't get otherwise, without cheating, it merely collects and collates the data for you so that unless you are crazily optimizational, you have much more information to base your decisions on.

 

[socralynnek]

I have a question with the whipping bug. I have whipped a granary with Huyana Capac. It had 25 hammers in it. Cost 1 pop and got 60 hammers with 25 overflow. Is this the way it should work?

Depends on other circumstances.

On normal speed you get 30 base hammers for each pop.
Then the production bonus is added like for other base hammers. So if this was normal speed, you had a bonus of 100% (if you were playing with the HOF mod)

The bug was: the bonus was taken into account when calculating how many citizens were needed but not when applying. It just gave you the multiple of 30 needed.

So when you had a production bonus, you either got less than what you should get or even more.

 

[ShannonCT]

The whipping bug used to exploit the fact that you could only get hammers in packs of 30 (on normal) when you whipped. If you have a forge and Organized religion, you get a 50% bonus for building city improvements. So if you are building a granary and had 39 hammers to go, whipping 1 pop should be enough because 30 + 50% = 45. With the whipping bug, if you whipped at this point, you would get 60 hammers for 1 population. But in the HOF mod, you would now only get 45 hammers. The HOF mod doesn't restrict the hammers to packs of 30.

How can you get 60 hammers for whipping 1 population on normal speed? You just need a 100% production bonus. An example would be bureaucracy (50%), a forge (25%), and organized religion (25%).

 

[Denniz]

Here are the HOF Mod tabs from the Game Options screen. I have marked up the images to highlight things a little. Each major mod has a checkbox to turn it on/off and a group of configuration options related to it.







As someone pointed out, the HOF Mod can be found by following the link in my signature below.

BTW, thanks to ShannonCT and Thrallia for their summaries. We may just have to steal them for use on the HOF site somewhere.

Note: Map Finder is a option that uses the built-in Regenerate Map function to search for maps with specified starting position criteria. There is a separate VB utility to define your criteria and review the results. It is not useful for GOTM.

 

[DaveMcW]

How many HOF submitters are there compared to the GOTM?

Maybe we should change the name to GOTM Mod...

 

[Heroic]

Thanks evreyone, this is making much more sense now. I didnt realize the first checkboxes were categories for the other checkboxes.

 

[AlanH]

I would just activate all of the features in the options screen when you begin the game. All the new features can be found under the tabs "HOF1", "HOF2", and "HOF3". You can access the options in game and change anything that you dont like. The autolog is the only thing you must use.

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More experienced HOF mod users, please correct any inaccuracies or deficiencies in this post.

Nice summary

The only comment I have is that we don't require you to have *any* component switched on if you don't want to. Turn off autologging if it doesn't float your boat.

For people who really prefer to see the Civ4 screens as they look "out of the box", you can install the mod, uncheck the group checkboxes as indicated in Denniz's posted screenshots, and all that will be active are the background features that we use for competition security and admin.

 

[ainwood]

For people who really prefer to see the Civ4 screens as they look "out of the box", you can install the mod, uncheck the group checkboxes as indicated in Denniz's posted screenshots, and all that will be active are the background features that we use for competition security and admin.

Actually, its easier than that: They default to 'off' in the HOF mod installation. If you want to use them, then you have to turn them on.

 

[Khalid]

The whipping bug used to exploit the fact that you could only get hammers in packs of 30 (on normal) when you whipped. If you have a forge and Organized religion, you get a 50% bonus for building city improvements. So if you are building a granary and had 39 hammers to go, whipping 1 pop should be enough because 30 + 50% = 45. With the whipping bug, if you whipped at this point, you would get 60 hammers for 1 population. But in the HOF mod, you would now only get 45 hammers. The HOF mod doesn't restrict the hammers to packs of 30.

How can you get 60 hammers for whipping 1 population on normal speed? You just need a 100% production bonus. An example would be bureaucracy (50%), a forge (25%), and organized religion (25%).

All right. I now understand, how the bug worked ad how the HOF fix works.

Thanks to all for their valuable explanations. I just recommend to everybody to at least try the mod. Don't use it if you don't like it, but try it.

 

[MikeH]

So will the mod be cimoulsory oi play the GoTMs or hust to submit them? I.e. wull those of us who just enhoy plating the games, but don't bother submitting them still need the mod?

Well as no-one could be bothered answering my question, I thought I;d try it and see. Yhe answer is 'Yes', in fact trying toplay without the 'mod' hangs the game.

 

[AlanH]

But here's one for people who are iffy about installing mod: How about still providing a "regular save" so people who don't wanna install the mod can play shadow games?

I'm still not sure why there are people who are iffy about installing the mod.

Your suggested "regular" save could not be provided during the game, as it could be downloaded and played by anyone, whether or not they were planning to submit the *real* version, so it could only be provided after the game is closed. If the number of mod-averse players is small then it's my guess that even fewer such players would be interested in playing a shadow game after the live game is closed. However, if there's a real demand we can look at it again.

 

[Murky]

I like this idea and support it 100%

 

[Vatec]

I'm still not sure why there are people who are iffy about installing the mod.

Um, because there are people who are iffy about installing any unsigned .exe file from any source they do not trust completely? In other words, because people are afraid of viruses, trojans, key loggers, etc.?

Just a thought....

 

[AlanH]

That's a pretty sad indictment of the Windows platform in general, and of your lack of trust in the people who provide the facilities for you to play these games.

PS. If it's the .exe that frightens you, would you prefer it if the mod was downloadable as a .zip file that you can simply place in your Mods folder? That's the way it used to be provided, but some users seem to have trouble with the simple concept of putting a file or folder in a specific location. Hence the installer.

 

[DaviddesJ]

That's a pretty sad indictment of the Windows platform in general, and of your lack of trust in the people who provide the facilities for you to play these games.

I think you would have pretty much the same risk on the Mac platform. Running executables requires a fair amount of trust in the originator. On any platform.

 

[AlanH]

That's true, but it sounds like the trust levels have broken down far further on Windows than they have on the Mac, if the products of CFC staff are not considered trustworthy. Also, if I install something on my Mac I can apply two levels of trust. A package that doesn't require admin access to be installed is a far safer proposition than one that does. I'm asked specifically for an admin password before I allow the second type.

Anyway, I wasn't intending to start a platform war ...

 

[ainwood]

Well as no-one could be bothered answering my question, I thought I;d try it and see. Yhe answer is 'Yes', in fact trying toplay without the 'mod' hangs the game.

As AlanH said, we might consider this once the game is closed. We don't want to have the two versions available at the same time, because that will just cause confusion.

 

[Thrallia]

Um, because there are people who are iffy about installing any unsigned .exe file from any source they do not trust completely? In other words, because people are afraid of viruses, trojans, key loggers, etc.?

Just a thought....

if that is truly why someone would not want to download the HOF mod, then I think viruses are a lesser worry than the fact that they think this whole site is committing a conspiracy to get them to download a virus.(not to mention they've got some issues regarding how important they must be in order for us all to want to infect them).

If the fact that it is being provided by the same people who provide the GOTM/WOTM services for them isn't enough, the fact that so many dozens of people have posted about how great it is and how much it helps their game, etc. should be enough to convince them it is not a virus. If it doesn't...I don't think there's anything that can be done to convince them.