HOF Mod to be made compulsory.

[drkodos]

Anyone suffiently neurotic to not download and use the mod should at least be consistant in their prophylaxis to have not ever downloaded and played any GotM's for the same reasons, so it should be a wash as far as losing people over this particlar nuance in the issue.

 

[ewokimpi]

Posted by AlanH
That's a pretty sad indictment of the Windows platform in general

I think this is true. IMO the only viable argument for purchasing Windows Vista is its supposed increase in security. However, it also shows that lots of folks:

Don't run an adequate Anti-virus product,
Don't run an adequate Firewall,
Don't run a hardware Firewall,
and lastly,
Don't have their systems adequately backed up.

If folks would only backup their computer/files/mail whatever on a regular basis, then it wouldn't be so bad when something happens to their system.

That it is so complex to do all of the above is another indictment of Windows XP.

Posted by Thrallia
the fact that so many dozens of people have posted about how great it is and how much it helps their game

I think part of the educational process here could be to also point people over to the HOF site and forums. There must be a thousand folks over there using the mod without security issues. If it doesn't harm those people, then it won't harm us GOTMers.

Mostly, with the HOF mod, I feel it is primarily an educational issue. Once the requirement has been in place for a couple of months, comments will die down.

 

[Thrallia]

I think this is true. IMO the only viable argument for purchasing Windows Vista is its supposed increase in security. However, it also shows that lots of folks:

Don't run an adequate Anti-virus product,
Don't run an adequate Firewall,
Don't run a hardware Firewall,
and lastly,
Don't have their systems adequately backed up.

If folks would only backup their computer/files/mail whatever on a regular basis, then it wouldn't be so bad when something happens to their system.

That it is so complex to do all of the above is another indictment of Windows XP.

I wouldn't say any of that is complex other than backing up your system(and only because secondary data storage is so small compared to hard drives these days it would take dozens of DVDs sometimes to back them up), its just that many people are either 'stupid'(a word that here means they don't know how to use computers), or ignorant(a word that here means they don't WANT to know how to use computers) about computers, and then just want to complain when something bad happens to them.

I've used XP on 3 different computers with 3 different anti-virus programs, including two free ones, and have never gotten a peep of any trojan, virus, key logger, or anything on any of the computers, and the only times I've purposely downloaded something that turned out to be a virus, my antivirus' caught them before I could do anything to screw up my computer.

I'd say that the virus problem on XP has been greatly exaggerated due to the enormous number of people who fit the above descriptions of stupid and ignorant with regard to computers.

 

[DaviddesJ]

if that is truly why someone would not want to download the HOF mod, then I think viruses are a lesser worry than the fact that they think this whole site is committing a conspiracy to get them to download a virus.

Nope. If a CFC executable were contaminated with malware, it would almost surely be inadvertent. Not a deliberate act by the mods here.

(not to mention they've got some issues regarding how important they must be in order for us all to want to infect them).

The main reasons that people spread malware these days are (1) to create zombie machines under their control, or (2) to make money through adware. Neither of these has anything to do with the importance of the owner of the target machine.

 

[Thrallia]

what I meant is that since the HOF mod has been downloaded by hundreds of people with no ill effects on their computer, and have posted as such in the forums...if someone is afraid to download it because of a fear of viruses or something, then it cannot just be the admins that wanted it on the computer, it must be everyone who has posted that it worked fine on their computer, because everyone downloads the exact same file.

 

[ainwood]

People - I don't think this should be threadjacked into a discussion on security, save to say:

1. We make every effort to ensure that all files on our servers are free of viri / malware.
2. When downloading any file, it is a sensible precaution to virus scan it.
3. No-one has reported any malware / virus from the HOF mod. If there were any, they would be cleaned from the servers immediately - as soon as we were made aware of it.
4. If people are uncomfortable with running the installer, then (making a huge assumption here, based on my personal experience...) then I suggest that these people are computer-literate enough that they could install the mod from a .zip file. I suggest you ask the HOF creators to provide one.

 

[DaviddesJ]

it cannot just be the admins that wanted it on the computer, it must be everyone who has posted that it worked fine on their computer, because everyone downloads the exact same file.

It's hard to be sure you're getting the same file as everyone else. You could do this by computing checksums of the file, and posting them publicly, so that people who download the file could make sure they got the correct file. But that's a lot of trouble, and no one has done it.

 

[MikeH]

As AlanH said, we might consider this once the game is closed. We don't want to have the two versions available at the same time, because that will just cause confusion.

No problem , I got the mod and installed it anyway, so far it doesn't appear to be causing problems.

 

[Danthor]

I think this is true. IMO the only viable argument for purchasing Windows Vista is its supposed increase in security. However, it also shows that lots of folks:

Don't run an adequate Anti-virus product,
Don't run an adequate Firewall,
Don't run a hardware Firewall,
and lastly,
Don't have their systems adequately backed up.

I don't have an antivirus running all the time, I'm just cautious.
I do backup my system every once in a while (although I hate it, and mostly because of past HW failures).

All these would not be necessary if there weren't idiotic-nerds-who-can't-get-laid around creating viruses, trojans, worms, etc and the like, just to prove they are smart :S

 

[lroumen]

Sorry for the late reply but I've been away for the weekend. I didn't want to dodge the discussion this way.

Firstly, the download links to the HOF mod are provided on the GOTM/WOTM download pages so finding them should not be a problem.

Secondly, I do not have an issue with computer security because if I wanted to I could simply decompile the HOF executable and go through it step by step trying to locate trojans, viri and the likes.

The reason why I am wary of installing the HOF is because mods often introduce more problems than they fixes. Looking at the version history I can only discover the whipping bug that they fix for Vanilla and perhaps the Great Persons multiple usage bug, but this one I have never been able to replicate in my games so it could just be a HOF introduced bug. For Warlods it fixes only the Great Persons bug, but again, I have not been able to replicate this yet.
Because the version history shows fixes to mainly HOF introduced bugs and because I don't like mods in general, I am more worried about game stability, rather than anything else. After all, the game is not stable by default, why challenge faith?
I do not understand why we would need to install the entire HOF mod, where only a patch for the two abovelisted bugs would suffice. As for GOTM/WOTM security issues... which ones?

Other than game stability, the HOF mod contains some questionable additions which can be seen as ambiguous content. The technology trading is an example, but also the gold and gold per turn alerts. They provide the player with too much aid and some players will still be able to abuse these things where other players will not. When players need to figure such things out for themselves, they will not do it so easily every turn and the danger of abusing knowledge is much lower.


But anyway, I'll download it and install it, because I enjoy the GOTM/WOTMs too much.

 

[Meatbuster]

Err... wha? Now that we're forced to used the mod EVERYONE will have the same tools. Wouldn't that level the playing field? And it hardly affects the regular game so you can always play without it (outside HOF/GOTM).

 

[Thrallia]

Sorry for the late reply but I've been away for the weekend. I didn't want to dodge the discussion this way.

Firstly, the download links to the HOF mod are provided on the GOTM/WOTM download pages so finding them should not be a problem.

Secondly, I do not have an issue with computer security because if I wanted to I could simply decompile the HOF executable and go through it step by step trying to locate trojans, viri and the likes.

The reason why I am wary of installing the HOF is because mods often introduce more problems than they fixes. Looking at the version history I can only discover the whipping bug that they fix for Vanilla and perhaps the Great Persons multiple usage bug, but this one I have never been able to replicate in my games so it could just be a HOF introduced bug. For Warlods it fixes only the Great Persons bug, but again, I have not been able to replicate this yet.
Because the version history shows fixes to mainly HOF introduced bugs and because I don't like mods in general, I am more worried about game stability, rather than anything else. After all, the game is not stable by default, why challenge faith?
I do not understand why we would need to install the entire HOF mod, where only a patch for the two abovelisted bugs would suffice. As for GOTM/WOTM security issues... which ones?

Other than game stability, the HOF mod contains some questionable additions which can be seen as ambiguous content. The technology trading is an example, but also the gold and gold per turn alerts. They provide the player with too much aid and some players will still be able to abuse these things where other players will not. When players need to figure such things out for themselves, they will not do it so easily every turn and the danger of abusing knowledge is much lower.


But anyway, I'll download it and install it, because I enjoy the GOTM/WOTMs too much.

well, from what I recall, the HOF mod is not made for fixing bugs, there are a couple of them that are fixed, and those are ones present in vanilla Civ that haven't been fixed by the v1.61 patch. It does not cause bugs, I've helped beta test the HOF mod, and from what I could tell the admins do a great job of making sure there are not any bugs in the public version. If bugs were common in the HOF mod, I doubt it would have become required for the two biggest competitions on the CivFanatics website.

The point of the HOF mod is that it provides the security needed for ensuring a more balanced playing field for competitions, along with providing a few optional tools that you may or may not want to use. I don't know all of the security improvements present, but one of the them is that it prevents players from being able to get away with reloading. And regardless of what you still seem to believe despite the summaries and explanations posted thus far, the optional features are not purely cosmetic.

 

[ionimplant]

where are the HOF mod? is it a single installation exe file? sorry that i didn't have much time to do the research. i'll highly appreciate if someone can direct me to the right link.

 

[Dianthus]

where are the HOF mod? is it a single installation exe file? sorry that i didn't have much time to do the research. i'll highly appreciate if someone can direct me to the right link.

It's here:
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php

 

[Sam_Yeager]

The big pains about the HOF mod are:

1. If you normally run Civ under a non administrative user then you have to login under an administrative user to install it.
2. You then have to give your non administrative user write access to the directory containing the mod so that Civ can update the .ini file with the options settings you have chosen. NB. Obviously this part doesn't apply if you don't activate any of the options.
3. You have to go through this sequence every time there is a new version of the mod.

EDIT: This only applies if you have a NTFS formatted drive.

 

[drapes]

Hey,

I'm new to Civ IV, new to these forums, new to GOTM, and just figuring out this whole MOD thing. But I managed to get Blue Marble going, and some Ethnically Diverse Units; and managed to get slaughtered by Napolean in 1540 A.D. in GOTM 11 so I'm learning.

Anyway, I'm not objected to making this HOF Mod mandatory now that I've read what it does, and I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I would really prefer that the decision be delayed until the Mod is Mac ready. I don't know how many Mac users there are out there, but it seems unfair to penalize us. There must be a way to keep everyone happy?

Drapes

 

[Dumpfbacke]

I like the HOF mod, even though it is sometimes a pain on my slow system to have to start CIV twice just so it loads with the correct mod, as I like to use the GreatPeople Mod normally. Yes it reveals a bit more info and thus helps a bit to manage your empire, so as a die-hard you can say it's on the verge of cheating. But on my slow machine it saves me a lot of time I'd waste clicking thru all my cities every turn.

Not to be mean, but I am about to upload my 3rd GOTM and haven't seen any result yet of any of them. So if this helps to reduce the workload and brings faster results, I agree with others, this would be great. (hey, they are facing 12000 years of catch-up )

Maybe you dont even want to answer this, but I'm not sure how this can prevent re-loading. If it is some kind of log-file, editing should be no problem. I just hope it's not creating a problem for me just because I'm playing on different machines, having the save games partially on a network drive, but also play offline at times. Well I'll find out as GOTM 11 I am playing with the HOF mod.

Again, I think this is the right thing to do even though first I felt a bit like Iroumen. Alright, enough of that, there are still Aztecs to defeat ;-)

 

[lost_civantares]

Why not just set the short cut for civ4 warlords to ""C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Civ4Warlords.exe" mod=\HOF-2.00.002"? That way it would automatically load.

 

[godotnut]

Or you can simply click on the save. If it was made for the HOF mod, the HOF mod will load automatically when Civ loads.

 

[jesusin]

I had just decided to make Civ4 automatically use HOF, so I agree with the decision. 2questions:

1.- Now that you are sure that nobody is reloading, could the "play at least one hour per session" rule be lifted?

2.-If the unswer is no, can I play 30 minutes sessions of private games in between long sessions of the GOTM?