Hokath's Tweaks

[hokath]

Yes the Bandeirantes is more organic to use, that's true!
The idea with these modules is that each one can be a proposal (or, where appropriate, a few proposals) at the next congress. We have arrived at quite a few since the previous congress was hijacked by 4UC so maybe they will be spread out, but I think this recon one is pretty sound to go ahead.
I also really enjoy earlier map trading (at Navigation) with these Scout changes. As Brazil I made actually a moderate amount of Gold selling my completed map to everyone (got to find those natural wonders!)

 

[Tekamthi]

Recon Rework

Can someone familiar here share some insight re: the highlights of this recon rework? I've been focused on my own recon stuff, and playtime is limited, hunting for inspiration...

I'd also like to shamelessly plug my Fast Rivers, Fast Coastal, and brand new Horse Thieves recon mod components , any and all of which should pair just fine with hokath's recon adjustments (lmk if they don't; see the "Recon Pay..." thread for more info), and add back some of the super speed we now have as default in base VP, but in a more thematically-satisfying way.

 

[hokath]

Reading your changelog, I would say the compare-and-contrast checklist looks like

Spoiler :

• We've both puts Scouts down to 2 Moves.
• You have Riparian, Coastal, Artician; I have Amphibious, Frogman, Ski Infantry (these ones have strong overlap but not complete)
• I've kept Ignore Terrain Costs on most "rough terrain", but not River-crossing or Marsh (or Snow or Mountains); whereas you have this post-combat-lost version on the two early units (I can't quite remember the details of TB1, TB2, etc. so I didn't manage to parse the difference between Pathfinder and Scout) and still Ignore Costs on Explorer+ (?)
• You have the retreat mechanic on the above; I have retreat as a separate promo at Railroad (with Commando unlock)
• You have ignore ZoC global, mine is on Trailblazer III
• You have use-enemy-routes on SVII, I have it on all units at some late tech
• Your cross mountains is on TBIII (?); I made crossing Mountains a T2 separate promo (so you can get it earlier)
• You have have half move on mounted/armor for Trees, I don't touch them
• You have Horse Thieves; I don't have anything like that
• You have Change Port; I don't have anything like that
• I have changed values for Recon; You didn't change them
• I have (new and existing) changing promotions for Recon; Yours are all utility
• My TBIII let's you move after combat (big); You don't have that anywhere
• I messed with Tile and Improvement CS values; You didn't touch them

So I'd say there's quite a bit of overlap philosophically. Indeed some things (Horse Thieves I'm looking at you) are fully compatible as you mentioned. I am interested in your solution to super-scouts being this lost-promotion, I will try it when I'm done with the ideology modmod.

Questions:

1. Riparian: can't you do this with the Songhai ability, or is it locked to Traits? (and given that's their only niche, should you encroach on it?)
2. Coastal: Don't you feel it makes more sense to embark and sail down the coast, and therefore for the promotion to enable this sort of movement to be about embark/disembark cost or similar?
3. Horses (with 5 moves) can in principle move 3 atm in "single rough" tiles, but it goes down to 2 in "double rough" (forest+hill), does that mean your half movement promotion makes it 2 in "single rough" and only 1 in "double rough"? This seems like a major balance change that is probably best discussed separately (though I understand why, for consistency, it should be seen with the Recon stuff)
4. Does the AI use Change Port? I assume its tied to great admiral AI? (I was thinking about "Airlift" ability for the Harbor for all units -- was hoping AI would understand that naturally due to Airport code being generic)
5. Would you agree that, to make Recon useful as a combat unit, the CS of recon units must be increased either on the base or on promotions, or both?

 

[Tekamthi]

1. Riparian: can't you do this with the Songhai ability, or is it locked to Traits? (and given that's their only niche, should you encroach on it?)

I've been chipping away at this stuff for years, so I can't always say that things work the way now that they did when I made the attempt -- but yes last i checked anyway its locked to traits or hardcoded in a way that is not accessible to DB modding. I've asked for a UnitPromotions_FakeFeatures table to match the ones we have for features and terrain movement, but idk if there will ever be any uptake from devs. RE: overlap with songhai, there's a promotion that overlaps for any other terrain movement UA so i dont see why not, plus songhai gets it for all units, not just some recon -- for songhai i guess this makes this choice less valuable, but same goes for aztecs/iroquois choosing tb1 etc.

edit: i just noticed a "RiverDoubleMove" in the promo tables -- must be a relatively recent addition, but will look into this and update if its suitable. This could become a db-only component

edit 2: seems to work, can run this as db-only

Edit

1. Coastal: Don't you feel it makes more sense to embark and sail down the coast, and therefore for the promotion to enable this sort of movement to be about embark/disembark cost or similar?

valid interpretation certainly, there was a reason i did this on-land originally -- i was taking away fast forests and jungles and giving back fast rivers and coastal. But now this swap is not so much the case. There was also no way to control embark back then, not so now... but the work is already done so jk imo it still plays alright too. But this direction you've suggested is probably even better, i'm thinking a promo with double move in coast and flat embark but NOT disembark

edit 3: also working! db-only too!

1. Horses (with 5 moves) can in principle move 3 atm in "single rough" tiles, but it goes down to 2 in "double rough" (forest+hill), does that mean your half movement promotion makes it 2 in "single rough" and only 1 in "double rough"? This seems like a major balance change that is probably best discussed separately (though I understand why, for consistency, it should be seen with the Recon stuff)

yeah this one is heavy nerf to horse, but the thematic value seems high to me, plus i like to include community requests when i can.. This works by applying both half move and extra move simultaneously, which seem to take effect in that order (ie 2 plot cost turns into 4 then gets the extra move for 5 -- i suspect the tree hill will thus take 7 moves.) Call it an acquired taste

1. Does the AI use Change Port? I assume its tied to great admiral AI? (I was thinking about "Airlift" ability for the Harbor for all units -- was hoping AI would understand that naturally due to Airport code being generic)

i have never noticed it using it unfortunately. I am thinking of writing a simple Ai logic to make this actually viable for play: on each move, will check if recon is in a coast city ie a port -> will get the unit's destination and compare its distance to distance from other port cities... if theres a faster option the code will just teleport the unit -- so it wouldnt 'use' the ability directly but we could make it seem like it does. Its a very flat ability however, only available per unit (not promo) -- I think we need bigger updates to it to make it useful to modders.

1. Would you agree that, to make Recon useful as a combat unit, the CS of recon units must be increased either on the base or on promotions, or both?

yes absolutely, that brings me to the point of cross-posting into your thread. Right now we're missing "something" combat-wise on TB, but once we add it, it will feel like survivalism too light in contrast. There are a lot of CS options though, just have to be clever about it.

i will be turning back to my "counter-recon" mod shortly, which is where I include any non-movement, non-xp related changes... its a little outdated currently. I have some ideas, but I'm looking to you and others as a starting point for recommendations on what non-movement stuff works best, ie what have you tried that fits really well?

I'll share some additional thoughts here re minimum that needs to be done for recon, if nothing else so i don't forget them later some of these are addressed in various ways in my mod but not always sticking to the db, will need to review db options:

• we lost the balance-off-the-start -- many of us don't care, but many of us do; this must be fixed
• fast recon are not a problem, much of the community wants fast recon, its where and how they are fast that matters. fast trees are thematically jarring. fast everywhere is somehow boring and OP at the same time.
• vision on its own feels like an administrative bonus of sorts aka boring, and can be over-applied. these need to be redistributed, i'm thinking one set on tb3, one set on surv3 -- only super recon with both branches will stack super vision
• cs of both branches needs to be rebalanced -- there isn't only one way of doing this, but tb branch needs something at each node, and imo it should never be active at same time as surv. there is a "stronger when not adjacent to any friendly unit" ability in promo tables that is almost perfect for the recon role -- if this could be split into attack and defend bonus, we put the defend on surv and the attack on tb -- i think this could work well. The current 'outside of friendly' is kinda silly thematically

 

[Tekamthi]

Terrain revert changes that simplified the combat bonuses on tiles -- -10% Defense in Tundra and Desert -- -15% Defense in Snow -- +15% Defense in Marsh and Oasis -- +10% Defense in Flood Plains

i think i missed when this change occurred, but i gather that most tiles don't provide defense bonus anymore? what are we left with now, +25% in forest,/jungle? that it?

Improvements -- +15% Defense on Town -- +10% Defense on Village and Manufactory

are these available to all recon? all units generally?

Unit Promotions the theme here is to either negate or flip terrain effects first rework the Trailblazer line -- Trailblazer I +25% Attack in Forest and Jungle +10% Strength outside Friendly Territory -- Trailblazer II +20% Defense in Tundra and Desert +10% Strength outside Friendly Territory -- Trailblazer III +1 Move (on land) Can move after attacking Ignore Zone of Control

i think this is the right direction for both main branches of the promos; I have a few design-related questions:

1. why didn't you mod surv alongside these tb cs changes? is this intended to be minimalist adjustment back to good gameplay, or is there another reason?
2. is there no hills cs bonus on purpose? i realize it can stack with others, but then so can the 'outside friendly' stuff
3. why do we avoid the general open/rough bonuses on this line? i understand the general issue across the others, but it seems apt here

 

[hokath]

>defense bonuses
+25% in trees, +10% on hills, and then I think Oasis is at +5% or something like this, maybe flood plains too. I would have to check the database.

>are these available to all units?
Yes, all units. I was trying to make a promotion like "Guerilla Fighter" that gave CS in Towns and Villages but I gave up for some reason and made it global.

1. I think the SV-line already has a fun identity of this tankier, auto-healing unit. In fact most of the motivation for doing these changes is that I felt Recon is mostly forced down TB-line to be useful and you don't get to play with the SV units.

2. There's a 20% Hills attack boost on the Altitude Training (Mountain crossing) Promo. Or did you mean something else?

3. Well my TB boosts to CS are just meant to be slightly-more specific (i.e. controlled) versions of +CS in rough terrain. TB1 removes the trees defense boost letting you attack into them normally, then TB2 let's you fortify in desert/tundra (that I gave the CS malus so you dont really want to park there to heal). Together you become terrain-agnostic (and then TB3 let's you actually hit-and-run in there). So the comparison is between the SV3 "tank" that still cares about the terrain and then TB3 "rogue" that is more fragile but you can't defend against them so easily. Now to come up with the "mage"

 

[Tekamthi]

i've implemented some of your suggestions re: movement, such that we have a nice assortment of +++speed alternatives without the flat bonus, and several are now db-only too

I think the SV-line already has a fun identity of this tankier, auto-healing unit. In fact most of the motivation for doing these changes is that I felt Recon is mostly forced down TB-line to be useful and you don't get to play with the SV units.

agreed -- with all my components loaded, there is a better mix of movement balance between the two main branches... for example enemy roads and ignore zoc move over to surv, but then there is double move available in select tiles via tb -- especially with the balancer loaded, the choice between the two main branches feels very even early on

2. There's a 20% Hills attack boost on the Altitude Training (Mountain crossing) Promo. Or did you mean something else?

you're right, i missed this, i was only looking at the main branch adjustments.. you did forest and jungle in tb branch though, and hills in a leaf... i think i might group them all since their movement is grouped

Well my TB boosts to CS are just meant to be slightly-more specific (i.e. controlled) versions of +CS in rough terrain. TB1 removes the trees defense boost letting you attack into them normally, then TB2 let's you fortify in desert/tundra (that I gave the CS malus so you dont really want to park there to heal). Together you become terrain-agnostic (and then TB3 let's you actually hit-and-run in there). So the comparison is between the SV3 "tank" that still cares about the terrain and then TB3 "rogue" that is more fragile but you can't defend against them so easily. Now to come up with the "mage"

I like these concepts... with lua we can do a lot to make these roles more distinct, without its a matter of being more clever in how the abilities are arranged, and where in the tree etc.

The general idea i have in mind rn is to have it so that with all the main branch promos (both surv and tb), CS is evened out across all the terrains and features... so using a mix of specific bonuses to offset the terrain defense as you've done, and some bonuses for open etc. so that fully promo'd super recon fights at same strength in every unimproved plot, maybe leaving a small advantage to rough. Need cs bonus at each node, generally thinking surv will be open/defense focused, and tb rough/attack focused, though with some overlap

 

[hokath]

New Update to get ready for the Semper Fidelis release

Ideology Module removed -- moved to Semper Fidelis to avoid problems

Spy Rework updated with
a new Wonder -- Port Royal
the General Post Office and Sorting Office buildings from the New Buildings module
Changes to Spy Point mechanics: all map sizes 100 points = 1 spy. no free spies from tech. 100 points from all diplo national wonders (4 of them, 1 per era starting in Renaissance)
Security pass on all new buildings. Trade routes lower security more (2 instead of 1). No +1000 security when no one has a Spy (England loses free spy in next VP patch - here White Tower gives 200 Points).
See full overview in the OP here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/hokaths-tweaks.690601/post-16629797

Axatin has kindly agreed to give me access to the DLL variable I need, so in an upcoming version we can complete the project! There will also be an optional "Spy Points China" for interested parties.

Edit: Placeholder +1 Happiness from Zoo, Hotel, Museum on Emancipation in Rationalism while we wait for bugfix to the Happiness/Pop table (does not stack correctly so bugged if you took Progress)
Edit edit: new version on OP can now be downloaded

 

[mrcd]

upgraded to 4.17.8 with this mod and my recon units aren't ignoring terrain costs anymore. incompatible, or problem with my install?

 

[hokath]

It won't be compatible with the latest beta because several columns have changed.
I will update when it moves from beta to stable.
Edit: 4.17 version 2 posts below
@mrcd

This includes Great Diplomat Mission giving 100 Spy Points instead of 30 Resting Influence (this will become 50 Spy Points when I get my mitts on Axatin's PR, with 50 on the Scrivener's Office. So 1st Great Diplo Mission is Spy, then every 2 Missions.) Note: this happens after the turns ends due to lua constraints.
It also changes the security meter to a more directly interpretable % with a larger range.

-- this makes it so you have a % security. 100% security is no NP
UPDATE Defines SET VALUE = 20 WHERE NAME = 'ESPIONAGE_SECURITY_BASE'; -- was 10
UPDATE Defines SET VALUE = 100 WHERE NAME = 'ESPIONAGE_MAX_NUM_SECURITY_POINTS';  -- was 50
UPDATE Defines SET VALUE = 100 WHERE NAME = 'ESPIONAGE_NP_REDUCTION_PER_SECURITY_POINT';  -- divided by 100: Percentage Reduction of Network Points per Security Point (was 160)

-- because security is meant to be active to some extent, base points need to go up
UPDATE Defines SET VALUE = 50 WHERE NAME = 'ESPIONAGE_NP_BASE';
UPDATE Defines SET VALUE = 15 WHERE NAME = 'ESPIONAGE_NP_CULTURAL_INFLUENCE';

 

[mrcd]

thank you! i've been playing with these tweaks for a couple months now and i was finding it painful to go back to base VP, keep up the good work

 

[statusquo]

@hokath

Hej, i think im not getting the golden age points from Civilized jewelers Office

So i did small test and:
initial accumulated=528
per turn 114+68=182
expected=710

After the turn i the math was as correct, happiness+per turn from cities were added.

But i have 9 improved gold with monopoly, so each gives 7*9=63 GAP, so that leaves like 5 GAP for some minor random stuff..
But also i have 10 franchises and 12 offices , so it seems i should have about 120 GAP more per turn..
If i recall correctly, alwasy near Office name, there were cost and bonus yields, i know that, it can be visual bug, but maybe its something more than that.
Also i noticed there is nothing in the field "Current Office bonus"..

Tried to look on your sql, but those are mostly "modiffications" to base behaviour, and im not sure i understand the base tables.
You nerfed all the office yields to 1 and but old office Civilized didint have GAP yields.
So after you removed old golden age length, it seems to me nothing was added, could it be the case?

Spoiler screenshots :

EDIT: Ok, found it, just for quck test, i used the faith yield, need find the right one.
But i was kinda curious maybe 2 GAP would be more apropriate? After the first 1-2 Golden ages, it really is not a lot, honestly, and by the time you
get corporation, you are after those 2 golden ages. But then again, Tourism can be kinda very good, so GAP is just a flavour..
Thou it kinda feel bad, because there is no sens to really rush those frachises.. But then again, the whole purpose of rework corporations
was to stop yield inflation.. but.. still, think 2 gap instead of 1 might be worth to consider. I think that could be like 20-30% more golden ages on average..
But consider, how many turns you wait, im not sure that would be that OP.. Just a thought..

Moderator Action: Moved as requested. leif

 

[hokath]

@statusquo
Yes you are right, it needs to be added to that place you posted in the screenshot.
+2 is probably ok. An idea would be to switch GAP->Tourism on the Airport which will balance it a bit while giving more to the Cultural Victory angle that is maybe a bit on the weaker side?
Below is the 4.17 version.
Editedit: Note the Spy part has been disabled because of the new changes.

 

[hokath]

Been playing a load of Celts starts trying to help with the 4.18 debugging
The unique pantheons were rebalanced by the congress but there were some issues so it would be nice to clear it up.

There were some proposals, for example Nightmare's, but they didn't make me excited to play Celts and felt a bit one-note.
I had a think about what the underlying design principles are for me. I came up with
1) should have the feel of a UA: rule of 3 is a good principle
2) needs to be strong enough for pantheon + majority UA power
2a) probably needs some culture; almost all have culture somewhere
2b) needs some front-loaded power for the civ's early-game identity
3) each niche base pantheon should have a celtic counterpart so you don't feel hard done by (motivation to add the Cailleach pantheon)
4) should not be too close to each other, and certainly not too niche that its hard to even think of a use case
e.g. is it really possible to have Rhiannon whilst also having balanced Bran, Dagda, and Epona (all "wide", non-terrain choices that fit a tradition/progress/authority sort of pattern. where is the space?)

Here's where I got to, I've listed the whole pantheon and bolded any additions

Spoiler :

Bran
1) +1 , , , from the Palace and Walls
early game it wasn't giving enough Oooomf for me, and ive nerfed it below
2) +4 , , , in the Capital/Holy City for every 5 Followers in owned Cities
3) 25% Ranged Strength and 10 HP healing
+2 from Ceilidh Hall

Dagda
1) 25% Growth and 1
2) +12 , , when a Citizen is born, scaling with Era.
3) 10 HP healing in owned territory
this was to represent an element of Dagda's myth so it needs to come back here, apologies for moving it in the first place
+5 from Ceilidh Hall

Cernunnos
1) +1 from Forests and Jungles (from food/gold or food/prod)
2) +1 and from unimproved Features
So Lakes and Marshes pantheon is covered here. Not affecting improvements to stay balanced, its also OG Celts flavor
3) +1 and from Camps and Plantations
+2 from Ceilidh Hall

Manannan
1) +3 , , if Coastal City
2) +1 from Water tiles and +1 and from Fishing Boats (from +1 )
Fishing boat bonus at 1 gold felt too weak for a UA, also no culture on this one at all
3) Eligible units gain Amphibious
There isn't support in the rest of the kit to be a naval expansion civ militarily, so this gives a bit of Danish flavor whilst staying distinct
+2 from Ceilidh Hall

Cailleach
1) +1 , , and for every 2 Tundra tiles worked
Reward for working Tundra wasn't that strong for it to be the theme, buff that
2) +2 , , and for Snow resources (from +1 to food/prod/sci/cult)
These are the yields we're really lacking in the flat tundra/snow region
3) +1 and from Mines and Quarries (from +1 )
+4 from Ceilidh Hall (from +5 )
Shifted more to the infrastructure mode, especially production. Snow tiles (and iron, which it often is) are already giving extra science

Epona
1) +3 Border Growth from Pastures
encourage bit more interaction with settling and a higher ceiling if you get a good spot
2) +8 , , , when borders expand naturally, scaling with Era
3) +1 from Stables and can purchase them with
this felt on-brand, balancing a bit against Bran and Dagda with an interesting effect we can only really do with Belief tables
+5 from Ceilidh Hall

Lugh
1) +2 , , , , and if the City has a Specialist
2) +25%towards Wonders (up from 10%)
Egypt is changing, we can make this more significant than just 10% (Egypt could get 40%)
3) +2 and from Wonders
+5 from Ceilidh Hall (from +4 )
double down on that early tourism, giving those wonder whores what they want

Nuada
1) +10% (down from 15) , , and during WLTKD
didn't have any culture before
2) +3 , , from every unique Lux owned or imported
3) +3 , , from every trade route to or from
also shortened text
+5 from Ceilidh Hall

Morrigan
1) , , from kills at 200% of
2) 20 , , from pillaging, scaling with Era
shortened text
3) +1 Great General Point from Strategic Resources
nothing says strife like getting a Citadel in your face
+2 Great General Points from Ceilidh Hall

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
New and redesigned
Rhiannon
1) +1 All Yields if the City has 4+ Citizens
before it was flat 2 , just doesn't get me interested. 4 Citizens because a) Settlers, see below and b) Rhiannon had 3 companions c) balance the size of the boost early. All yields because a) variety and b) rhiannon and her companions did a wide range of professions on their journey
2) +3 All Yields from Natural Wonders
generalist choice is a great place to incorporate the niche Goddess of Nature effect. This is a massive bonus (since you get it only a few times) so the timmy's in the audience can try to get this to work out
3) Settler units gets a unique promotion: +2 Moves; Ignore ZOC, Terrain, Rival Borders; can use enemy roads
reference to the first story of Rhiannon who can escape her pursuers (in spite of moving really slowly!?), this will let you go after those natural wonders even though they might be far away
+1 All Yields from Ceilidh Hall (from 5 )

Gwyn, Monarch of the Mists
There are several Welsh myth characters that live on the mountains, I've amalgamated Gwyn (underworld deity), Idris (giant mountain king, astronomer, poet), and the Grey King (death-like figure) a bit to get a full theme
1) +1 , , for every 2 Mountains within 3 tiles (capped by City pop)
The other part of Goddess of Nature you couldn't get before. The choice of yields are food for necessity and then the others from the Idris story
2) Eligible units receive the Altitude Training promotion
Mt. Kili aside for a moment, this is the modded version that lets you cross mountains and have more attack in hills. Inca ain't safe from Gwyn
3) from kills and deaths at 200%
We have the God of War in Morrigan but if you were going for a Zealotry angle the lack of faith gen is prohibitive, so this is a niche alternative but an important one
I also wanted deaths in there because of the characters of Gwyn and the Grey King, and that only works off faith atm
+3 from Ceilidh Hall
exception that proves the rule on extra faith as a yield (the only one we haven't used really!)

Olwen, the Golden Wheel
I was opposed to Desert Celts for historic reasons, but with a) a bit broader appeal than simply desert and b) design considerations I've rowed back on that.
I searched for character I could associate with Desert. Olwen has connections to the sun, and to making barren land bloom.
1) +1 and from Desert tiles without Flood Plains, and for every 2 Plains or 2 Flood Plains worked by the City
2) +1 and from Farms
Science from God of the Sun but broadened to all Farms
3) +10% during Golden Ages
Olwen has this story about always leaving golden rings everywhere she takes a bath. What do Baths do in VP? 10% Culture in Golden Ages!
+5 Golden Age Points from Ceilidh Hall
So its a proper Golden Age focus in a way the old Rhiannon kinda tacked on. Farm and Ceilidh Halls are your engine and the reward is 10(+20 from base)% Culture boosts on top of everything else you can build around that, like Divine Inheritance, Mosques, Sacred Calendar, etc.

In other news I added an interaction between Hotel and Snow tiles since I realised taking the Rationalism policy away makes them a bit sad (especially for Cailleach!)

 

[HeroOfTheSword]

We've done a huge amount of work on the Ancient and Medieval trees, but I am left disappointed in the Industrial Era where only Imperialism feels like it hits the right notes.
Here I present a reimagining of Rationalism and Industry (with some minor tweaks to Imperialism).
Rationalism is focussed on Growth and Happiness but in a general way that will allow you to use it to "thicken" your wide Empire.
Industry is audited to make sure its bonuses scale best in a wide Empire.
Together they create an interesting choice between "pure wide" and "thick wide" , while Tall has "pure tall" in Rationalism and "thick tall" in aggressive puppet expansion via Imperialism.

I absolutely love these tweaks to Rationalism in particularly but a thing I've noticed is that whenever I don't go with Rationalism, I'm left way way behind in tech if I go Industry and worse still if I go Imperialism I'm left way behind in tech and in happiness. Like I just played a game with Japan, went Authority > Fealty > Imperialism (naturally) and even though I'm ahead in domination, without being too aggressive, China went Rationalism and has dreadnoughts and destroyers whilst I still have Ironclads and frigates. I'm doing okay because my units are beefy with xp but I still feel like I'm losing because they are a few techs ahead of me, which is weird because I'm actually ahead in Social Policies/Ideologies. I went Order and even though I love the tweaks you made to the Ideologies as well, I just feel like if you don't go Rationalism you just don't keep up. I think there needs to be better happiness tenets in Order maybe? As well as a rebalance with Science in Imperialism and Industry perhaps. Food for thought!

 

[hokath]

@HeroOfTheSword I don't know if you're on the most recent version and/or playing Semper Fidelis. Currently I wouldn't say they're that far ahead in Science beside ofc the Great Scientist purchase. However at least in Semper Fi there is a faith->sci conversion and that might be too strong, I keep turning it down bit by bit.

Update:
Remove the War Elephant and Siam changes since War Elephants are going to Carthage in 5.0 VP
Rebalanced the Restaurant and added the Cinema to the New Buildings part

Spoiler :

Restaurant (Biology)
sits between Zoo and Stadium in the instant yield line
-- +2 Food and +1 Culture
-- +400 Gold when Built
-- 5% of Food converted to Culture
-- +2 Gold and Tourism from Hotel, Agribusiness, and Marina in the City
none of these are essential/guaranteed
-- 1 Urbanization reduction

Cinema (Electricity)
requires a Gallery
-- +2 Culture
-- +1 Happiness
-- +2 Gold, Science, and Culture from Writers, Artists, and Musicians
-- +1 Gold and Tourism from Desert tiles
-- +2 Science from Village and Town
-- +4 Science and +2 Culture at Computers

Note to self: consider updating the icon

 

[Tekamthi]

War Elephants are going to Carthage in 5.0 VP

i know its not directly on point to your mod -- but can you elaborate about what is happening with war elephants? i assume we're talking about the ivory-tied unit?

 

[hokath]

Yessir

H

Thread '(8-09b) 4UC Carthage - Asamu and Atlas Elephant'

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(8-09) 4UC Carthage: Alternate UU2 and Tophet Ability

Links: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/8-09-4uc-carthage.690048/ https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/8-09a-4uc-carthage-asamu-instead-of-tophet.690278/ https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/8-09b-4uc-carthage-asamu-at-sailing-instead-of-tophet.690408/ UU2 - Numidian Cavalry (replaces...

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(8-09a) 4UC Carthage With War Elephants

Proposer: @pineappledan Sponsor: @pineappledan UMU2 - Atlas Elephant (horseman) Unlocked at military strategy 125 :c5production: (35 more than horseman; same as current elephant) Does not require horses 16 :c5strength:CS 3 Moves / 2 Vision Pillars of Atlas - (+20HP; Can cross Mountains) Feared...

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[DLL] - (8-NS) 4UC Carthage - Asamu at Sailing instead of Tophet

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/8-09-4uc-carthage.690048/ and then https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/8-09a-4uc-carthage-asamu-instead-of-tophet.690278/ I'm not a huge fan of a unique Shrine, but a unique Settler is a huge change similar in scope to Merchant of Venice. It's too much...

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Proposal:

Add "Starts with an Asamu instead of a Settler" to the UA.

Unique Civilian - Asamu (unique UnitClass)
Unlocked at Pottery ; obsoletes at Railroad
Doesn't replace...

• Hinin
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Passed Proposals

 

[Zach Faulkner]

Trying the espionage rework (sounds great) and have built Greece's unique Scrivener's office from 4UC but unfortunately its given me 500 spy points, not the 50 it should resulting in 5 spies. Not sure if this is a bug with 4UC so will test the normal Scrivener's Office and report back.

 

[hokath]

I tried too but it worked normally for me.
Are you on latest version of VP? It needs a define that was only added in 4.18