Well I just build axes till 0% research. Made a library after I declared war and ran scientists to keep research up. After the declaration it didn't take long to capture the capital. Anyways I'm just a mere immortal player so I would probably lose the game later on anyways.
Here's our (well, I guess my) new start. Random civ was Isabella.. Same map type (standard, temperate, pangaea). I have an entire week to play this game because I'm out of school for Mardi Gras, so I really want to take this one seriously and make the most of it.
I played the first 20 turns, we meet Augustus, Shaka, Mao, and Genghis. This will be intense. I research mining to get to bronzeworking, which has 4 turns left. Popped two huts, but nothing of importance came out of them. The first two builds were workboats, and then I've started on my worker. I'm thinking about chopping settler.
Spoiler:
What I want to do is basically play the game how I would play it, and I am requesting as much harsh, evil, put-down-ish, criticism as possible, because I really, really suck!
pick your civ. the 1st times; I seriously doubt you can make your 1st win on deity with izzy unless you start with 4 gems in the fat cross.
All the games I won so far were with picked civs. and even then with decent start(aka - with choke points so I don't get boxed in)
pick your civ. the 1st times; I seriously doubt you can make your 1st win on deity with izzy unless you start with 4 gems in the fat cross.
All the games I won so far were with picked civs. and even then with decent start(aka - with choke points so I don't get boxed in)
Well, I'm going to at least try. If I fail, I can always start again.
Spiritual should make this alot easier, and I'm not boxed in. The only possible problem is that there may be no copper!
EDIT: I am not going to abandon this thread until I win a Diety game, whether it take 2 weeks, 2 months, or 2 years. My one favorite thing to do in life is play civ, and my one goal (besides graduate high school and go to college) is to beat Deity. My plan for this thread is to create a huge learning experience that everyone can look at and use in their own game.
Hm had to search for a screeny. I had 14 axes/2holkan in my stack when I attacked and more on the way while razing the 1st city.
On your new game, early IW/Calendar seems obvious. And is that Augustus west of you? With gold in his capital .. yikes. Would you mind putting up a 4000bc save? I'd like to shadow for a bit.
Tbh what difficulty do you usually play on? I mean there's no point in trying to win deity if you play monarch by default.
Hm had to search for a screeny. I had 14 axes/2holkan in my stack when I attacked and more on the way while razing the 1st city.
On your new game, early IW/Calendar seems obvious. And is that Augustus west of you? With gold in his capital .. yikes. Would you mind putting up a 4000bc save? I'd like to shadow for a bit.
Tbh what difficulty do you usually play on? I mean there's no point in trying to win deity if you play monarch by default.
To be honest, I play on Emperor, and I can win extremely easily. But I've been thinking lately, why increase level by level, having to keep learning new things each time you make a jump? Why not just learn to play at the top from the start? In fact, I wish I could eliminate all of my knowledge of this game and simply start at Deity with a clean slate.
I believe I put the starting save in the same post with the current save (it's the 4000 BC autosave).
Well, this one ended pretty quick, got overrun in 775 BC by a huge stack of chariots from Genghis. A couple things I learned from this one - I was too lazy when it came to getting my first settler out quick, I need more workers (I only had one for a majority of the time), I need to break my addiction to the Aesthetics -> Drama path (there has to be more logical routes that are more relavant to the situation at hand and will still allow for tech trading), I need to learn how to whip more efficiently, etc., etc., etc. Looks as if I have a long way to go (funny how I can basically point out my own problems though). This thread might end up being 100 pages long.
Ah sorry, I thought the autosave was after 3200bc. I spoke too fast. I'll give it a try tomorrow (I got vacation too ), though I never played with Isabella.. I foresee epic fail coming up.
And I understand a bigger jump, I did the same for monarch->immortal. But can't compare it to emp->deity, seems like a huge leap especially with random leader.
Ah sorry, I thought the autosave was after 3200bc. I spoke too fast. I'll give it a try tomorrow (I got vacation too ), though I never played with Isabella.. I foresee epic fail coming up.
And I understand a bigger jump, I did the same for monarch->immortal. But can't compare it to emp->deity, seems like a huge leap especially with random leader.
I'm definitely going to try this start again, and then we can compare. I sure as hell got pwned on this previous attempt.. I'm curious to see how someone else will do.
If I could learn to adapt to the game no matter what leader or start I was given, I think that would be a great accomplishment. I think it's far ahead in the future though!
I think I can diagnose what my main problem is though. I get completely hooked on a strategy that may work one time (such as the Aesthetics -> Drama, bulb Philosophy, bulb Education and Paper and then 100% Liberalism), but that strategy might not be the best for the situation I end up with. However, my puny little brain goes into panic mode, and I become too afraid of getting too far behind or whatnot if I don't use something that I already know *may* work, instead of working with what I have around me, so I end up using a strategy that is completely irrelavent. I need to break this habit.
in my experience, col is assimilated by the ai as a religious tech, so most don't bother with it. Moreover, it's a good trading chip, since it's 1.7k compared to alpha/monarchy and such which are 1.4k(on marathon speed). Drama, at 1.4k, won't be tradeable since it's on par with what you want and you know the ai wants abit more then what'd be a fair deal. Leaving aside that between theatres and courthouses, I know what I'd choose.
in my experience, col is assimilated by the ai as a religious tech, so most don't bother with it. Moreover, it's a good trading chip, since it's 1.7k compared to alpha/monarchy and such which are 1.4k(on marathon speed). Drama, at 1.4k, won't be tradeable since it's on par with what you want and you know the ai wants abit more then what'd be a fair deal. Leaving aside that between theatres and courthouses, I know what I'd choose.
Well, I basically use the Drama path to pull off some pretty nice trades, since usually not every AI has all the same techs as the others.
Code of Laws is actually pretty important for caste system and would be worth it if I researched it, but I'm wondering if it would work to go directly for it..
These standard sized pangaeas are just not working out.. I believe ABigCivFan came to the same conclusion in his thread. The AI's just become overwhelmingly powerful..
creative helps a ton too; I play only fractal and check at the start if I'm isolated or not. Anything not isolated is good to go. Otherwise, making settlers only, without chokepoints, I still couldn't keep up with their rex(needless to say, that beside not being able to keep up, my economy didn't exist, but that hardly mattered since I was only curious as in how fast the ai expands)
In my experience, you should pretty much be able to trade col left right and center. Even on deity. However, there are a few rules: if you trade to one guy in a religious block, trade to everyone same turn(obviously, since otherwise they'll pass between them). Also, the ai takes in account how many ppl. already know the tech(as you know, the more knowing a tech, the easier it's to research - hence the nightmare isolated starts are); so trade 1st for the more expensive ones and save it last for somethin' like iw, since last guys won't be willing to trade even alphabet/monarchy for it.
To be honest, I play on Emperor, and I can win extremely easily. But I've been thinking lately, why increase level by level, having to keep learning new things each time you make a jump? Why not just learn to play at the top from the start? In fact, I wish I could eliminate all of my knowledge of this game and simply start at Deity with a clean slate.
Not to be mean or anything, but if you usually play Emperor like you said you shouldn't jump on deity yet, immortal is hard enough as it is. Anything that works there can be transferred to your deity game, it won't go away like you made the impression of thinking, it's not like the lower difficulty levels, you won't start all blank by going from immortal to deity.
I spent a long time winning regularly on immortal before I was ready to win some deity games with standard starting positions (no lucky gold+riverside corn etc), and I still lose, for instance in the public ABigCivFan challenge where I seem to be getting owned badly by Darius who got Liberalism in 400 ad (haven't had the time to play on yet). You should focus less on beating a difficulty and rather focus on feeling that your game is getting better. Understanding the game fully is more important than knowing the deity tricks. Even if I'm able to beat deity I recognize that other deity players like for instance Unconquered Sun (and others who posted in those threads) are better than me. It's not about the difficulty level, but the understanding of the game and knowing how to act in situations, which they are still better than me at overall, they can still make me go "wow!" at times doing things I would totally ignore (like the pre-emptive attack on the Khmer in the Frederick game). My point is that there is always something to learn and you should take it slower and enjoy your route to deity rather than rush into it and overcome it like an obstacle.
The gaps from emperor to immortal and immortal to deity are quite big, you should at least play some more offline immortal games before deity. You could even post them here for learning experience as that was your plan for the thread.
Well I gave it a try, got to 525BC so far. I think we got a pretty good capital spot considering the starting techs.
I picked meditation as first tech working a clam tile, which grabbed me Buddhism. The original plan was to get some buddhist friends by getting early wheel/writing but alas I was too slow due researching IW/Pottery. I'm pretty sure it would've been stronger to pick priesthood for happiness and take that way to writing. In my scenario no one is buddhist cause I sidetracked too much.
Spoiler:
Though no copper nearby sucked, which kind of messed up my little plan. Maybe AH -> writing would've been nice too. But I don't know if there are horses nearby. In my game I don't have AH yet. I HOPE there's some horses in my territory or we can say farewell to the uu.
I got two huts btw. One gave me the wheel, the other one gave me 3 barb warriors and a lion.
But it's not all bad, I can switch to buddhism for 10 turns to get over my happiness cap so I can whip it away and go back to no religion.
I am wondering now though, what map type is this? I got build in so fast, after I got 4 cities there was no room to expand anymore. Well there was still room to the far north/east somewhere above genghis but it seemed not worth it, maint would probably be a killer.
Atm I'm giving in to shaka's/genghis' demands, I "hope" I can live long enough to expand by attacking Augustus later on with shaka on my side. Probably with castles->trebs. Maybe wait till macemen to have a chance against praets but that would be so late I think. Actually I would love to attack Genghis rather then Augustus cause his land is more suitable AND he's weaker.. but genghis is going to have a lot of horses, which wouldn't be nice if I make a lot of trebs/cats in the future. x_x
What do you make of all of this? I'm not quite sure what path to take. I already pissed off Augustus by stop trading with him on demand of shaka. On the other hand I don't trust Genghis at all in my back.. though he's been busy attacking zara/bull so far. Then again if I attack augustus I can get a 2v1 going with shaka which isn't possible against genghis.
Edit: Actually after rereading this, I think it's smart to join the conf religion. Which would get me zara, mao and shaka on my side. So I could attack genghis in that case and ask the conf block to join.
525BC, my 4 puny cities. Barcelona and Seville are working 2 cottages that will belong to the capital later, too bad they don't overlap more then that. Cordoha got a weird placement, missing the fresh water bonus. But the blue circle advised me to settle there, maybe I grab horses that way. (or a late game resource)
Would you mind putting up a screeny of your city placement? I'm interested to see what you made of it. I'm one turn away from aesthetics, only augustus has it at this point so I'm going to do some backfilling with that.
Spoiler:
I'm building monestaries, since Shaka didn't found a religion himself I was thinking of trying to spread buddhism. I think he could be a strong ally if I can get him to like me more. He could help me vs augustus and genghis if needed. And I need to build a bunch of axes soon, cause the last thing I want is augustus steam rolling me with his praets. x_x
Tech wise, I'm thinking to aim for poly->lit (GL)->sailing->calendar->MC->maths->construction->machinery->engineering. Though I could really use monarchy, maybe I can get it in a trade along the way. Early CoL seems kind of pointless with only 4 cities, I think it would be better to wait with that till I can expand trough war. Any opinions? I could change the tech path to getting early contruction and try attacking augustus earlier then planned but I'm not too confident about that really.
ps: I'm a total espionage newb. I only played a few bts games so far. I'm just spreading it atm. Maybe it's an idea to focus it on someone. Any suggestions are highly welcomed on that matter.
@Burn: It might be wise to focus espionage points (EP) towards the AI you're planning on attacking to be able to incite city revolts to remove cultural defense.
As to a game plan, I've been planning on making my next game with Isabella and try for a conquistador assault, picking nationalism as liberalism freebie, hopefully getting conquistadors vs longbowmen in the city garrison. I think one could do some hefty land grabbing using that, but seeing as you don't know whether you have horses that could be too big of a gamble (maybe research that next to find out and choose what to do, whether attack now or wait). I think the map type is Pangea, but I didn't open up the game to make sure.
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