Hot news!Multiplayer will come with in an official add on!

[cutiestar]

fayadi, I think it is great you want to be a business man, I do think you don't realise good business from bad though, maybe after doing a 6 month busines studies course you may get the idea.

When i said not even 1% of Civ players would even care about any MP, well i actually was using round numbers to make it easy for you, If i was to be more accurate I'd say more like 0.01% of Civ players might want MP capability. That is the real world, this Civ fanatics forum is not the real world of CIV players, it is an extremely tiny percent of the civ population, and by no means reflective of the masses.

I know atleast 20 people who play civ in real life, and I am the only person that goes to any online forum, and none of them play or would ever play MP.

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by cutiestar
I am glad to see Firaxis are a professional software company, gee if they were stupid enough to release the game with MP and scenerios all in one package for the same price, i would have lost all respect for them and thought they were managed by a group of socialist nunns.

This puts Firaxis up there with all the elite software companies that release ad ons constantly for a price

As in all life, everyone can by the basics for a cost, if you want more and are into the game enough to want more, then you pay more, just like buying a snow feeze from Mcdonalds, if you want the flake added to it, you pay a bit more

Oh that's real intelligent.
Customer: Hey can I get some ketchup with my hamburger?
Server: Sure, that'll be an extra $1.95.

Right. give your head a shake. I think the idea is pay for what you get. And in this case, we paid "$50.00" for a game product that was promised to be loaded with 3 years of requests and features, and was nowhere near that goal. All we have is a hyped-incomplete version of a Civ sequal, and really bad PR. I won't pay another $40 to make them own up to broken promises, and I'm confident that thousands (possibly millions) will feel the same, and sales will be lost. A "free" expansion on the other hand, might clean the mud from their already dirty rep.

But to use your analagy: they sold us a McDonalds cheeseburger without the cheese!

PS. If you disagree, you better read some of the MANY complaints in the Civ forums on here, and apolyton. Then get back to me.

Charles.

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by SGX
I don't mind paying $20-$30 for an expansion pack...expansion packs usually add a lot more to a game

Sure, join the small minority of "Oh we'll buy anything" so that the rest of us suffer. How are we going to get them to own up to promises this way? I have an idea.. lets pay them MORE money! Geez give it up!

Firaxis made a good game, and they are continuing support for it with the expansion pack... do you expect your $40/$50 to go so far as to allow Firaxis to pay it's employees for a year?

Yeah they did make a good game, it was called Civilization 2. I don't care what happens to their employees, they aren't selling oil.. they're selling games. And they don't put food on my table. They are paid to produce quality game products to satisfy our entertainment needs, which it obviously has not. Otherwise why are so many people complaining, think about it.

This is not ruining the image of Firaxis at all.

If you are so outraged by this, then perhaps you shouldn't buy the pack, it's your choice as a consumer. [/B]

You bet your ass it's ruined their image, you would be blind not to see that by now. I've read thousands of posts since the release of Civ3 and it's not looking good. But you are right, we do have a freedom of choice as consumers. I won't pay a dime for any more Civ products from this point on. And I'm going to make sure that I personally affect sales in my community. It's not wise for a game company to let it's fans down. Not wise at all.

Charles.

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by Dillo
Oh great! They are gonna relese another buggy product.They havent even gotten the original release fixed yet, but they are gonna make an addon! WOW! See how fast I run out an buy that! This is absolutly ********. WTH!?!?! Why dont they get the original game straight first.Maybe they are just doing the finish move on themselves.Fatality! How dumb. If they had released this game good the addon would be strong, a good move.I think they are gonna do themselves in though. They are just rideing on all the good hype they got from reveiwers who played the game for like 10 mins and said its the best ever. FIX THE ONE WE HAVE FIRST, THEN MAYBE WE WILL CONSIDER BUYING AND EXPANSION.THAT IS IF ITS NOT ALL BUGGY, You can bet I wont buy it.

Spoken like a real "Civilization-Fan", well done! I back you 100%. And they *WILL* do themselves in, not only have they been to cowardly to address the upset fans, but they're going to completely ignore existing problems and lack of promised features that were meant to come with the first release of Civ3, they're cooked!

Charles.

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by cutiestar
fayadi, I think it is great you want to be a business man, I do think you don't realise good business from bad though, maybe after doing a 6 month busines studies course you may get the idea.

When i said not even 1% of Civ players would even care about any MP, well i actually was using round numbers to make it easy for you, If i was to be more accurate I'd say more like 0.01% of Civ players might want MP capability. That is the real world, this Civ fanatics forum is not the real world of CIV players, it is an extremely tiny percent of the civ population, and by no means reflective of the masses.

I know atleast 20 people who play civ in real life, and I am the only person that goes to any online forum, and none of them play or would ever play MP.

Thats funny, I know over 60 people who play Civilization constantly, and they *ALL* use these forums. Guess that blows your theory out of the water. But since I'm a realist, I would have to say the world-wide civ-consumers that use these forums lay somewhere in the 30-40% margin. And that's a huge chunk of the profits, and not something to be ignored. I don't know where you get this "0.01%" crap, are you some kind of a marketing expert for a large corporation? If so you're grammar reveals you to be poorly represented. But let me give you a tip on good and bad business since you're struggling with that.

Bad business with no future... "Lets sell a faulty car, but engineer really good replacement parts!"

Good business with plenty of future... "It's going to be tight, and hard to manage, but lets build this car right and offer a lifetime warranty! That way our customers will always trust us and come back for more!"

Now anyone with common sense will agree that Firaxis has conducted horrible business with their newer labels. Like Civ3 for example. And I've been playing Civ since Sid first released it, I know what I'm talking about.

Charles.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Charles



You bet your ass it's ruined their image, you would be blind not to see that by now. I've read thousands of posts since the release of Civ3 and it's not looking good. But you are right, we do have a freedom of choice as consumers. I won't pay a dime for any more Civ products from this point on. And I'm going to make sure that I personally affect sales in my community. It's not wise for a game company to let it's fans down. Not wise at all.

Charles.

For somebody that is so deeply disappointed with CIV3 and Firaxis that you would not buy an expansion, you certainly spend a great deal of libido on this futile vendetta. Don't take it so personally. It IS just a game, and if playing it makes you angry, then don't play. When I buy a much antcipated computer game that doesn't meet my expectations, I simply stop playing it. I don't waste my time (and that of others) with ceaseless complaining and vilification of the designers and publishers. Good luck in your 'crusade'. You will probably need a whole lot to be successful.

 

[Desert Fox]

Firaxis needs to fix all the problems with civ 3 before any MP or add-on is even thought of. Surprising how many are looking for something else when this software is clearly not finished, not to mention that bugs still exist big time. :crazyeyes

Desert Fox

 

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Charles


Oh that's real intelligent.
Customer: Hey can I get some ketchup with my hamburger?
Server: Sure, that'll be an extra $1.95.

Right. give your head a shake. I think the idea is pay for what you get. And in this case, we paid "$50.00" for a game product that was promised to be loaded with 3 years of requests and features, and was nowhere near that goal. All we have is a hyped-incomplete version of a Civ sequal, and really bad PR. I won't pay another $40 to make them own up to broken promises, and I'm confident that thousands (possibly millions) will feel the same, and sales will be lost. A "free" expansion on the other hand, might clean the mud from their already dirty rep.

But to use your analagy: they sold us a McDonalds cheeseburger without the cheese!

PS. If you disagree, you better read some of the MANY complaints in the Civ forums on here, and apolyton. Then get back to me.

Charles.

I agree with you big time! Apolyton has gone private because of the MANY complaints I hear he is tired of the bulls???.
Firaxis has let down the entire civ community it is funny how so many stay loyal after Sid stuck us in the back! I am REALLY hoping that they dump the ego or whatever it is and fix the problems. I have not been able to finish one game without a crash. I decided to try Win 2000 professional first thing I am playing civ 3. All my games were played on a 230x230 8 player map. Never got past modern age without a crash. This time I have a 150x150 with 8 players. If it crashes again I will not play it again until a good working patch is out. The idiots took away the Lighthouse wonder effects allowing galleys to cross oceans. This clearly indicates that these guys never played the game at all. Why in the world would they remove this in the patch? That is just one of the many things that is annoying in this sequel of the greatest game of all time civ 2! (Still is i think!)

 

[CyberChrist]

Lets not put the entire blame on Firaxis, Infogrames probably pushed hard for a christmas release and are probably also those insisting on charging for any further upgrades to Civ3.

I have no problem with Firaxis/Inforgrames charging for an AddOn with scenarios and new features - and then adding the multiplayer version, promised scenario editor(not just a map/rules editor) and proper MACRO SCRIPT support(!!!), as long as everything but the scenarios and new features are free for download from the site also.

I for one will only consider buying any further AddOns if the promised features are also offered for free online. Why? As it stand Civ3 is worse than Civ2 in many areas, the brilliant new features (mainly culture, resources/trade, diplomacy and armies) does not help me feeling cheated of all the things that was present in Civ2 but not in Civ3 (far too many for me to name here), and I won't be fueling any company that chops up a good thing then adds a few spices and tries to sell it in several smaller packages - while forgetting to include some of the tastier bits.

If Firaxis/Infogrames proves us all wrong and release the promised stuff online (no charge) and then in addition offers us more new stuff in an AddOn then forget everything I said. Yes I am an optimist leaning heavily on the early christmas release theory.

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by eyrei


For somebody that is so deeply disappointed with CIV3 and Firaxis that you would not buy an expansion, you certainly spend a great deal of libido on this futile vendetta. Don't take it so personally. It IS just a game, and if playing it makes you angry, then don't play. When I buy a much antcipated computer game that doesn't meet my expectations, I simply stop playing it. I don't waste my time (and that of others) with ceaseless complaining and vilification of the designers and publishers. Good luck in your 'crusade'. You will probably need a whole lot to be successful.

Oh sorry about that. I thought that this was a "Civ3 Forum". I must be in the wrong place. I was under the impression that if we as consumers have a problem with a "Civilization Product" we could come here to vent our issues. My appologies.

Obviously we love the game, and have great respect for the company itself. Why do you think we are so "let-down" and disapointed? I have stopped playing it, I stopped playing it as soon as I found out how useless the editor was. And I even refunded my copy at Electronics Botique. But if you think for a moment that this "crusde" is useless then you obviously have no idea how powerful the influence of word can affect sales. But even if it doesn't (which it already has) I will still "vent" my feelings and opinion even if it falls apon deaf ears. Its only human.

Charles.

 

[OneInTen]

But since I'm a realist, I would have to say the world-wide civ-consumers that use these forums lay somewhere in the 30-40% margin.

A realist? Give me a break. At best a few thousand people use these forums. It wouldn't surprise me to see Civ 3 sell over a million copies, not to mention the number of people who will copy the game without purchasing it (I'd estimate at least the same number of people who buy it, if not more). That puts the 0.01% figure a lot closer to the truth than your 30 or 40%.

 

[ajohn505]

Yeah... I'm another player that's stopped playing it. It's not worth it. The only reason you people are still supporting them is because there's not a worthy competitor available yet. Wait a year... if a million people are willing to pay for this crap, you can bet there'll be 2 million willing to pay for a decent game. If only the reviewers played the game through a couple of times, I doubt it would get 9-10 stars in all the mags. It's like they read the back of the box and wrote the review from that.

Even if you think it's wrong for them to have released the multiplayer addon separately, most of you will still buy it...so their business model is right

Companies who pump the bottom line at the expense of all else do so at their peril... at the very least at the expense of their humanity. Americans have so easily accepted pure economics as good ethics.

Don't take it so personally. It IS just a game, and if playing it makes you angry, then don't play. -eyeri

Lol... this game was so hyped, it took so fricking long to develop, then it's released in unfinishable state, it has circa-2000 graphics and unoptimized code (6 minute turns anyone?)... and now they want us to drop $20-40 for multiplayer? For the record, the graphics are not incredibly important for gameplay... but what the hell took all this time?

And their PR sucks BFDD.

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by OneInTen


A realist? Give me a break. At best a few thousand people use these forums. It wouldn't surprise me to see Civ 3 sell over a million copies, not to mention the number of people who will copy the game without purchasing it (I'd estimate at least the same number of people who buy it, if not more). That puts the 0.01% figure a lot closer to the truth than your 30 or 40%.

Fool, the entire Civilization community (world-wide) consists of about (FACT) 5-6 million people. And your "0.01%" would only be about "600" people. So you're saying that only "600" people are complaining about Civilization III? Is anyone else reading this crap? Can someone jump in anytime and enlighten our friend here. Not only is your version of the truth un-realistic but your math is way off. Had tough times in high school did you? But lets seriously take my estimate... 5-6 million Civilization fans/players world-wide. I said about (I'll undershoot here) 30% of those are unhappy with Civ3. Thats about 1-2 million of the whole. So lets figure this out for you, I would have to say about 50,000 are online, and the rest (1,950,000) are classified as other; gaming groups, community discussion groups, retail meetings etc.

But in all honesty here, I'm wasting my time with you. Because your a little "game-crusader" and you've got this poor version of facts locked into your head so tight that you probably argue with yourself in the mirrior over it. But if you really want evidence, give me a secure email address, and I'll send you petitions and huge lists of upset fans. I'll even throw in a "civ-community site listing" so that you can expand your puny library of evidence beyond Civ-Fanatics and possibly acknowledge that there are tens of thousands of upset fans. Do you honestly think you're going to change that? (laugh) I still don't understand why people like you defend this point, there are still more people that "enjoy" the game than hate it. So whats your problem?

Charles.

 

[OneInTen]

Fool, the entire Civilization community (world-wide) consists of about (FACT) 5-6 million people. And your "0.01%" would only be about "600" people. So you're saying that only "600" people are complaining about Civilization III?

No, I'm responding to a post that suggested 30 to 40% of people who play civ participate in this forum, which is patently absurd - there are maybe a few hundred regular posters here, and even allowing for a lurker ratio of 10 to one, that's still only a few thousand people. I agreed that an earlier poster's figure of 0.01% was closer to the mark (but I think possibly a little on the low side).

But since you mention it, no, I don't think 30 or 40% of people who play civ 3 are dissatisfied with it. I'd say the figure is under 10%, and mostly consists of the hardest of hard core players, who are almost always disappointed with sequels (like how all the hardcore quake players kept playing quake when quake 2 came out, dispite the fact that most of the casual gamers moved on ...)

I think the reviews tell the true story - if it really was the case that if the reviewers played the game more extensively they'd give it a lower review, how do you explain the fact that the reviews just coming out are still just as high as those at the time of release? Surely the later reviews would be, on average, more extensively researched. Yet there is no difference in their conclusion - they like the game.

The biggest fans always tend to be the most critical, and that's why although maybe every second person here hates the game, that's not even close to the way it's been percieved by the general populace.

Talk to the casual gamers, not the hardcore fans (who are a minority) to see the real story. Especially since the people who dislike something tend to shout 10 times louder than the satisfied customers (who feel less need to complain since they're happy!)

I mean, I know several people (myself included), who thought the lord of the rings movie was pretty average in quality, but I'm not going to claim that this is even close to a majority opinion, simply based on the fact I could round up a few internet postings to support my view.

So get over it. You don't personally like the game. Big deal. I'm a fan of the games blizzard puts out, and I've played every one of them to death, but I didn't like diablo at all when it came out. But I didn't sit around writing petitions to blizzard to stop making games that sucked or any such nonsense. I simply didn't play it. I fail to see why civ 3 is so special that it shouldn't be treated the same way. There's no point ranting about it as though firaxis owe it to you to make the game you wanted.

 

[seeker]

Charles if you want people to take you seriously, you really need to improve your comprehension.

Firsty Cutiestar said not even 0.01% of civ III players would want MP, nothing about that 0.01% not liking the game. Remember Cutiestar made it very obvious in her post that she was making a rough guess, so maybe it would be 0.05 %, who knows, but certainly an incredible amount lower than the 30-40% you tried to suggest.

It is psychologically well known that complainers speak a lot louder than content and happy people, so even though the figure of 1 in 10 was mentioned earlier, i think that person was playing extremely safe so it couldn't be argued, I would say it is more like 1 in 1,000.

oh i am a qualified statistision, so please tell me i need to learn maths , and go find out how many gamers really would be dissatisfied with CIV III, like i have no idea about these things

Charles obviously you are a big net user, but a huge amount of gamers don't even have internet, a huge amount of gamers that have internet just use chat and email, and another huge amount just surf, but never even consider going to forums about games they like to play. I think you see internet as being such a huge part of your life, that it must also be for everyone else.

Far from it buddy, an extremely small amount of CIV players would ever have written one word on a computer about this game. They just sit at their computer and play it, trying to think of strategies to beat it, rather than complaining because their strategies aren't good enough and they don't like losing.

 

[Fayadi]

Originally posted by cutiestar
fayadi, I think it is great you want to be a business man, I do think you don't realise good business from bad though, maybe after doing a 6 month busines studies course you may get the idea.

When i said not even 1% of Civ players would even care about any MP, well i actually was using round numbers to make it easy for you, If i was to be more accurate I'd say more like 0.01% of Civ players might want MP capability. That is the real world, this Civ fanatics forum is not the real world of CIV players, it is an extremely tiny percent of the civ population, and by no means reflective of the masses.

I know atleast 20 people who play civ in real life, and I am the only person that goes to any online forum, and none of them play or would ever play MP.

Wrong answer.You should have told me gaming market business and general market business(yeah companies that sell houses etc) are different and you have vastly underestimated my business skills
Gaming market industries lack of poor competition that led most game companies to do whatever unprofessional business they like .Big millionaire companies (like Nike,ooh yes my father factories are selling shoe lace to them)have extreme competition and they cant afford to do a half ass job and release a more totally fulled version several months later ,because in these markets,if you do a half ass jobs nobody will buy the damn goods from you.Gaming industries are so cheap to invest anyway, You invest a little and you can get great games like Civ III already.Having made CivIII games with much ease which is already the best in the world (even which was release in a half ass condition) they wont bother to improve public relations,professional service and replies because I always think that Firaxis think they had already created the best game, even they created in a half baked condition,many gamers will have no choice but to buy them because any other games out there mostly sucks.Gaming industries people cant do business,if Firaxis have done a "completed" Civ III I am damn sure many people will buy them and perharps become the best selling game of all time(Civ III had already Time magazine support)

 

[Fayadi]

Originally posted by SGX
I don't mind paying $20-$30 for an expansion pack...expansion packs usually add a lot more to a game

Firaxis made a good game, and they are continuing support for it with the expansion pack... do you expect your $40/$50 to go so far as to allow Firaxis to pay it's employees for a year?

This is not ruining the image of Firaxis at all.

If you are so outraged by this, then perhaps you shouldn't buy the pack, it's your choice as a consumer.

Give me an evidence why I am outraged,I am not.
I am criticising Firaxis poor service and public relations aren what this forum is all about?
$40/$50 support employees for a year?They should have completed the game fully baked in the first place maybe with higher price to prevent reviewer's critics which will discourage gamers to buy them.I do understand many people dont trust reviews but it will at least decrease 5-10% gamers from buying them because I know a bunch of people who read a game reviews before playing them.

 

[OneInTen]

I am criticising Firaxis poor service and public relations aren what this forum is all about?

It's not my forum, and I can't claim to know the official answer, but ...

The forum is the Civilization Fanatics' forum. Which would seem to suggest it's a forum for fans of the game. If you're not a fan of the game and instead just want to gripe about it, my gut feeling is that this isn't really the right place.

Of course, I'm not about to tell people what they can and can't say, even if I could enforce it, so take it as a passing observation.

 

[Charles]

So get over it. You don't personally like the game. Big deal. I'm a fan of the games blizzard puts out, and I've played every one of them to death, but I didn't like diablo at all when it came out. But I didn't sit around writing petitions to blizzard to stop making games that sucked or any such nonsense. I simply didn't play it. I fail to see why civ 3 is so special that it shouldn't be treated the same way. There's no point ranting about it as though firaxis owe it to you to make the game you wanted. [/B]

The point (for the last time) is that the majority of the posts on this board and others are full of criticism and complaints. And no matter what you say, or how good the reviews are. There are still many disapointed fans. I didn't say the game was "crap" and I didn't say I hated the game. I love Civilization, all the more reason for me to be upset. I've stated my opinion and there is nothing you can do to change my mind. So please make your point, because I've completely missed it. It sounds like your trying to silence anyone with criticism, could I be right in assuming so?

Charles.

 

[seeker]

The majority of the posts on this board are actually not full of criticism, just that the people who criticise write a hell of a lot more posts and start a hell of a lot more threads. Always the same few people though.