Hot news!Multiplayer will come with in an official add on!

Originally posted by cutiestar
I am glad to see Firaxis are a professional software company, gee if they were stupid enough to release the game with MP and scenerios all in one package for the same price, i would have lost all respect for them and thought they were managed by a group of socialist nunns.

This puts Firaxis up there with all the elite software companies that release ad ons constantly for a price :goodjob:

As in all life, everyone can by the basics for a cost, if you want more and are into the game enough to want more, then you pay more, just like buying a snow feeze from Mcdonalds, if you want the flake added to it, you pay a bit more :D


These people never do business in their life thats why you dont know.I did study a lot of multimillionaire companies mind you!
The most professional software developers out there is Sierra I think.You know why?
Half-Life come out without any bugs(1 or 2 perharps?) and you said it is very wise of Firaxis to have released an add on again later right?Ooh no what a stupid logic!Half-Life did come up with an expansion pack too!Many people buy them .The game are still fully enjoyable whether you apply the patch or not and Sierra's method is complete a full game and release n add on to add in more punches but Firaxis?damn they finished a half ass JOB!Their multiplayer add on is really an example how lame they are in DOING BUSINESS!Multiplayer IS SO ESSENTIAL IN PRESENT GAMES and yet they fail to do it so lame!!The concept is that it is a great idea to release an add on sometime later but make surethe original game is released in a full-cooked condition so that the game is still enjoyable whether or not you put the add on.
I have no experience on gaming industries but so far the messages I got on this thread is that Firaxis are lame not to release a "full-barbequed" condition in the first place and my opinion is that Firaxis is not doing a good job
 
Civ3 is an excellent game. It's really fun to play...it requires strategy and historical knowledge, IMO. I just don't see why all of you hate it so.

But...

I'll make a deal with everyone who doesn't want to buy the patch: I won't force you to buy it. You're happy -- you keep your money and don't get the patch, and we're happy -- we give a deserving company our money and in return get years of fun (I personally played civnet for 2 or so years straight).

Feel free to refuse to buy an add-on pack that will make your game better. You can even tell Firaxis that you aren't buying it because they "lied" to you. That's how capitalism works.

I wish there was MP in this version of Civ3 too. I could whine about it on these forums, too. Anyone could. But if you want to get your voice heard, email Firaxis. You are their customer, their #1 obligation, and they will do anything to please their customers.

I have no doubts that the add-on will be excellent and well worth my $20-30. I'm going to have a blast playing civ3 MP while you guys are going to be stuck playing Hammurabi and Abe.


:goodjob: :egypt: :egypt: :p
 
For me to buy a civ expansion pack it would have to come with:

8 new technologies to be researched (2 in each age)
2 new wonders to be built (internet, great aquaduct)
2 new city improvements to be built (movie theatre, fbi)
2 new military units (guerrillas, military police)
4 new civilizations (vikings, mongols, ottomans, spanish)
1 new victory condition (commerce)
10 historical scenarios to play through
1 new diplomatic option (call off the attack against my friend)
and multiplayer

anything short of that and I don't think I'll be buying it

Eliezar
 
Originally posted by Fayadi



I am a big fan of Civilisation series mind you!
I didnt raise this question before but I am gong to ask,
are these people who are defending Firaxis work for Firaxis?
We all cant deny Civ III is a great game but the company is "troublesome"

No, I certainly don't work for Firaxis (don't even live in the states). I have no real opinion either way on Firaxis. They haven't done anything out of the ordinary as far as companies go - they're just reacting how I'd expect them too. Thus they've neither won any great respect, or any great dislike, from me.

I'm just arguing against those who seem to think they're some kind of great Satan. :p
 
damn they finished a half ass JOB!Their multiplayer add on is really an example how lame they are in DOING BUSINESS!Multiplayer IS SO ESSENTIAL IN PRESENT GAMES and yet they fail to do it so lame!!

actually, that's very untrue... more and more games are moving towards centering their efforts on either single-player or multiplayer, and not doing both... max payne, the sims, and a number of other recent high-selling and well-reviewed games have all had no multiplayer modes

think about it this way - for them to have released with multiplayer in the original version, that means much less time for other things. Whether that means more bugs like the air superiority thing would've gotten through, or possibly the removal of some things altogether, or an even further pushed-back release date, something would've had to give. This way, they got the singleplayer game to where they wanted to (arguably, but not the point), and now they can concentrate more on a well-done multiplayer mode.

Besides - have they said yet that there would be no free multiplayer patch? the Deus Ex team made a multiplayer mode that was added into the Game of the Year edition, adn was also released freely on the web... i think firaxis knows that an expansion pack can succeed without something as major as multiplayer, if it makes additions in other areas (diplomatic victories, fixing the modern ages, etc)
 
1.) An online / multiplayer version of The Sims is in production.

2.) Lets be clear about this: Making us pay for the multiplayer add-on for Civ III may be something that we don't like. However, Firaxis never made any promises that multiplayer would ship as standard. It is therefore purely a business decision for them and Infogrames - it may alienate a few or a substantial number of fans, but it is their decision and they can live with the consequences.

What is not acceptable is making people pay for patches. I would imagine that the multiplayer add-on will include a patch, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that the patch will also be made available for free.
 
For the purpose of this post, I have interchanged the words expansion and addon. I know they mean different things, but I ask you to bear with my appaling grammah. I've been far too involved with Latin for the last couple of months...

I would first like to state that I would pay money for an expansion that had new content (especially if there were new features that hadnt been previously promised). I will not pay for an expansion pack that merely contains features that should have been in the original release. These should be put in a freely available patch, and should only be included in an expansion because the patch happens to be put in that expansion. I also quite like Civ 3. There are some features that still need to be patched (and I was not happy with the screwed air superiority), but overall I have begun to love the game to death. Thats that over with.

Anyone ever heard of a company called Looking Glass Studios? They produced high quality games that rarely needed patches and had 99.9% of the features promised. Anyone know what happened to them? They went broke because of a couple of failed self publishing ventures (part of the blame is on other companies for not sticking to contracts, but its useless placing blame now they have gone done the drain).

The relevance to Civ 3 is that it could be possible, but extremely fething hard for Firaxis to go broke because it waits to finish a game instead of bowing to Publishers or half cocked market reps. They can afford to make a quality game, and they don't need us to pay for an expansion pack to keep them paid.

Blizzard entertainment is an example of a company that needs to release extra products to keep the company going. They provide a free gaming service that has a massive player base. This service may well be a dissappointment to some, but it is actually a major acheivement considering it is free. Blizzard has to fund this service somehow, and it looks like it will be with that World of Warcraft thing. Firaxis does not seem to have any plans to fund some huge gaming service. They do not need our money for a multiplayer addon, if they are out of money already, then something is seriously wrong in the companies finance department.

PLEASE ALSO NOTE THAT I AM NOT DEFENDING BLIZZARD FOR ANY CHOICES THEY HAVE MADE! (but its completely off topic, so lets not discuss it here)

Next point. The fools who run around saying "Yeah, lets buy this game, then lets buy the add-ons, and lets ***** about the people who feel theyve been ripped off because game companies dont have to answer to their consumers" should be shot. It's as simple as that.

I work at Hungry Jacks (Burger King). I'm also a Guitarist. I can be fired from my job at Hungry Jacks if the product (burgers, fries, service. They are all products) I make arn't good enough for the consumer. I play guitar as a support (I play side riffs for bands that need large numbers of guitarists (theres a Brisbane Gothic band that makes use of about 14 guitarists), for bands that don't have enough members available, things like that), and I have only begun to develope a reputation as a decent guitarist. If I perform badly on ONE occasion, my reputation takes a major hit, and I accept it, learn from the mistake and attempt to better my playing so it does not happen ever again.

These experiences can be formed to the conclusion that Firaxis and Infrogames do actually have to answer to us, the consumers, whether it is a fething game or not. I do not give one feth about whether it is a game. It is a fething product that consumers have bought. They also will hopefully learn from the mistakes they have made and better themselves in the future. This does not mean they will, and at the moment I am highly doubting that they will.

I suppose the point of this rather long article is that either Infrogames, Firaxis, or BOTH are fething with us, the consumers. Eventually they will have to answer to us. It is bloody unfortunate that promises are not a binding contract.



Oops. I forgot to comment on Sierra. They are a very proffesional company, but only because they actually have some business sense. They are supporting Valve in its endeavours to fund the mod community because it makes them look good. It also provides loads of new content that they only have to invest a little bit of time and money for (they dont have to invest labour. That makes a huge difference to the cost of the stuff). I could argue about some of the releases they have made, and how buggy they are, but for the main part, yes, they are usually quite good.
 
Originally posted by seeker
The majority of the posts on this board are actually not full of criticism, just that the people who criticise write a hell of a lot more posts and start a hell of a lot more threads. Always the same few people though.:rolleyes:

Zat right?

Going back five pages, easily more than half the threads are critical of some aspect of Civ3. Few if any were started by the same person.

Care to show us some facts to back up your random assertion?
 
Originally posted by Eliezar
For me to buy a civ expansion pack it would have to come with:

8 new technologies to be researched (2 in each age)
2 new wonders to be built (internet, great aqueduct)
2 new city improvements to be built (movie theatre, fbi)
2 new military units (guerrillas, military police)
4 new civilizations (vikings, mongols, ottomans, spanish)
1 new victory condition (commerce)
10 historical scenarios to play through
1 new diplomatic option (call off the attack against my friend)
and multiplayer

anything short of that and I don't think I'll be buying it

Eliezar

THAT was a good post :goodjob: . I guess you are in the 'not completely satisfied' camp on this issue, but you have listed some specific and constructive improvements that Firaxis can take note of. This is the way to criticise, constructively.

I personally am quite satisfied with the game as is (I would not have used MP if it was available), but I would definitely like the features above to be included, including MP as it is obviously important to some (many?) so it would be good business sense to include this option.

Flame on boys...
 
I guess you are in the 'not completely satisfied' camp on this issue, but you have listed some specific and constructive improvements that Firaxis can take note of. This is the way to criticise, constructively.

Uh huh. And Firaxis is listening. Just look at all those informative updates on their website.
 
Who would have thunk it. I bought the limited edition because it was supposed to come with an extra scenario and other goodies, but it was a rip off. Now I know why. Hey Firaxis, if you're going to screw me, at least take me to dinner first!!!
 
Actually I'm satisfied with the version of Civ III that was put out. My biggest complaints are that it has no diplomatic option to create peace between two warring factions and that the ai isn't more advanced in the late game military department.

However, my list above would get me to buy the expansion. Anything less and it will be hard to get me to buy it. I just can't seem to get into multiplayer turnbased although I especially enjoyed the alpha centauri multiplayer games I played I also found it to often be more trouble than it was worth.

Eliezar
 
Originally posted by Jimmicus


THAT was a good post :goodjob: . I guess you are in the 'not completely satisfied' camp on this issue, but you have listed some specific and constructive improvements that Firaxis can take note of. This is the way to criticise, constructively.

I personally am quite satisfied with the game as is (I would not have used MP if it was available), but I would definitely like the features above to be included, including MP as it is obviously important to some (many?) so it would be good business sense to include this option.

Flame on boys...


That depends how you define constructive.Although you find many people complaining here,they have been putting in facts you cant see and their languages are well within controls not like the posts I see in Apolyton when Civ III first time just came out:mad:
 
Originally posted by Eliezar
For me to buy a civ expansion pack it would have to come with:

8 new technologies to be researched (2 in each age)
2 new wonders to be built (internet, great aquaduct)
2 new city improvements to be built (movie theatre, fbi)
2 new military units (guerrillas, military police)
4 new civilizations (vikings, mongols, ottomans, spanish)
1 new victory condition (commerce)
10 historical scenarios to play through
1 new diplomatic option (call off the attack against my friend)
and multiplayer

anything short of that and I don't think I'll be buying it

Eliezar

I admire your creative idea:goodjob:
They should put in more military units.
Especially about the cavalry units!
Chariot-)Horseman-)Knight-)Cavalry
4 generations of military horses only what the heck?
Civ II definitely has more generations on military horse units.
About the military police thing....
I thought when you are non republic or democracy govt ,when your units are defending the city arent they military police?
Victory conditions through Commerce?
Do you realise that these victory conditions cannot be put to use in mp games?Like diplomatic victory......Ask all your friends (no need all majority will do)to ally you and you win the game!Commerce?Is a good idea but I think it is not as fun as winning with the 6 other victory conditions.......
 
Originally posted by Cav
I work at Hungry Jacks (Burger King). I'm also a Guitarist. I can be fired from my job at Hungry Jacks if the product (burgers, fries, service. They are all products) I make arn't good enough for the consumer.

A consumer comes in to Burger King expecting filet mignon, but gets a whopper instead, and throws a fit. Who is at fault? Did Burger King make a promise it did not keep? Did the cook not do his job? No, rather the consumer had unrealistic expectations and not only suffers personally, but makes everyone around him suffer too. (Everyone in retail has had customers like that.)

I'm not partial to cricket, but I don't spend my time on the cricket forum trying to make everybody miserable because cricket isn't the game I think it should be.

In any case, the premise is wrong, that the consumer is getting ripped off. I love the game, play it everyday, and wish I could buy the add-on now, instead of having to wait.
 
Originally posted by Zachriel


A consumer comes in to Burger King expecting filet mignon, but gets a whopper instead, and throws a fit. Who is at fault? Did Burger King make a promise it did not keep? Did the cook not do his job? No, rather the consumer had unrealistic expectations and not only suffers personally, but makes everyone around him suffer too. (Everyone in retail has had customers like that.)

That is an unrealistic expectation. What isn't an unrealistic expectation is that air superiority works when I buy the game. If that had worked, then I probably wouldn't have even bothered to write the above post.

I also don't appreciate my posts being dragged off topic, if you would like to have a debate over what is an unrealistic expectation, private message me.
 
Originally posted by Zachriel


A consumer comes in to Burger King expecting filet mignon, but gets a whopper instead, and throws a fit. Who is at fault? Did Burger King make a promise it did not keep? Did the cook not do his job? No, rather the consumer had unrealistic expectations and not only suffers personally, but makes everyone around him suffer too. (Everyone in retail has had customers like that.)

I'm not partial to cricket, but I don't spend my time on the cricket forum trying to make everybody miserable because cricket isn't the game I think it should be.

In any case, the premise is wrong, that the consumer is getting ripped off. I love the game, play it everyday, and wish I could buy the add-on now, instead of having to wait.

These multimillionaire companies dont do business like Firaxis at all !THERE IS NO COMPLAIN so far in people in these industries not reaching consumer's demands.You are saying unrealistic expectations from consumers?
Multiplayer and scenario editor were contained in Civ II!
Can any morons out there who had been defending Firaxis tell a reason why they cant do the same job like in CivII ?
Civ III is a great game I know!So far what I had been saying is they come in a half-roasted condition .They should have been twice better if not for Firaxis
 
Civ 2 wasn't launched with multiplayer. It came out well after the game was released.

I'm almost positive that the reason they held off on multiplayer was because there were some things that had to go into it that needed play-testing first. For example, how were they to know how to have leader appearances work in multiplayer? Should it be a less random occurance to get a great leader? If two civs both fight, lets say, 10 battles each, and one gets a leader and the other doesn't, is it fair that he gets to rush-build the pyramids because of it? Thats a rather unbalancing occurance, don't you think? Not so in single-player maybe, since the AI and you run things very differently, but in multiplayer things like this need to be balanced so that games don't come down to who got the better starting location, and who got the most leaders. If I was designing multiplayer, I'd want some feedback on this before I implemented it. I'm sure there are countless other concerns that have to be addressed first.

Also, as a businessman, how can you not appreciate their business model? Especially after it worked SO WELL with Civ 2?? They released Civ 2, THEN released the multiplayer pack, then the scenario pack, then they released the package of Civ 1, Civ 2, Civ 2 MP, Civ 2 ToT, etc. They made tons of cash off that. Nobody hated them then for it. Why is everyone frowning on the process now? Alot of other companies are doing it to. How can you blame them? In a time when the industry as a whole isn't exactly reaping in the profits, why should a company who has a hit on its hands not try and get as much cash as possible? Sure, if it means alienating all your customers its not such a great idea, but you don't REALLY believe that all the people who bought Civ 3 hate Firaxis because there was no multiplayer, do you? Don't be naive. :rolleyes: There were quite a few hardcore fans here who were very dissapointed that there wasn't multiplayer. There were even a few reviewers who pointed it out. (Although they seemed to be content knowing an addon was coming out to add the feature.) But thats it. The majority of Civ 3 players could care less. When it comes out alot of them will just go "Hey! Multiplayer! What a great idea! I want it!" They wont go "Well that should have been in the original product. I'm not buying it." They just wont. You guys have to accept that the only people dissapointed is a small minority of hardcore players here on these message boards. And Firaxis is aware of your displeasure. They're just not willing to change their entire marketing plan just because ~5% of their target market doesn't like it. Thats free enterprise at its best. Live with it.
 
Originally posted by Cav


That is an unrealistic expectation. What isn't an unrealistic expectation is that air superiority works when I buy the game. If that had worked, then I probably wouldn't have even bothered to write the above post.

But that was patched and now it works, rather like if you go into Hungry Jacks (Australian version of Burger King) and your burger is cold, you can go up to the front counter and they'll make you a replacement one.
 
How in the world is MP going to work anyway? My smallest games take days to finish. I doubt I'd buy it anyway.

What I'd like to see is a nice patch fixing all the slow down problems during the later stagnant phases
 
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