House of the Dragon (Season 1 of GoT-related series discussion)

[Kyriakos]

I suppose it is good for the story that you can kill with or without witnesses and nothing happens; allows you to not have to think about consequences in going from a to a2.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I suppose it is good for the story that you can kill with or without witnesses and nothing happens; allows you to not have to think about consequences in going from a to a2.

It's Westros and GRRM's world. Death and killings happen. There is no reason to expect anything different. And since it is fiction, the author gets to tell the story just how he likes.

 

[Kyriakos]

^That's imo a thoughtless take, but anyone is entitled to share their view in a thread.

To elaborate a bit, it simply makes no sense to argue that rules of social reality are by default either different (you can kill and be left alone, no problem - moreover he killed another ser for no apparent reason) or that such a thing is in continuity with "Westeros" in the other show. Anyone highborn or with title killed there had to happen after some scheme or with the permission of the local ruler, otherwise it was punished. The mountain didn't even kill the knight of roses, and yet the guard tried to stop him from leaving the ground until the king himself ordered them to let him go - and the mountain was later declared a false knight for killing commoners, and his own death was ordered by the hand.
So while it'd be irrational to claim that it's ok to change social reality (or that it changes automatically because there are also dragons/whatever), it is also demonstrably false that this was an established social reality in the "Westeros" setting.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Another excellent episode that jumps the story along. I like how they are focused on the story and not just "big events" and given how many different threads are involved, they are doing well.

Spoiler :

Lady Rhea was my favorite of the women characters so far! Alas, her time was too short. The wedding announcement feast had all the parties there and was ripe for action to close out the episode. I was surprised though by what happened.

Spoiler looking ahead :

It looks to me that season 1 will end when Viscerys dies in another 15 years. By then there will be a multitude of new kids and many of the current cast are dead and gone. For that to happen there will have to be more time jumps. The death of Viscerys though is the beginning of the struggle for the throne. It seems a good spot for season 1 to end.

This is my favorite episode so far. I'd almost say that it gets better ever week, but I didn't really care for episode 4 and much as episode 3. (It almost looked like they let D&D control the lighting for the nighttime scenes, making it hard to see what was going on.)

Spoiler :

I completely agree on Rhea Royce.

One thing I would like to note is her claim that their marriage had not yet been consummated. That is a very important point never mentioned in the books.

Under Westerosi law, there is no such thing as divorce. An annulment of a consummated marriage is theoretically possible, but only with a special dispensation from the High Septon himself, which is almost impossible to get. Even kings have begged the High Septon and had their requests denied out of hand with no appeal. The Faith does not condone polygamy either. Maegor turned to polygamy anyway, under Valyrian rites instead of following The Faith's ceremonies, but that was enough to trigger holy wards against him.

However, ending an unconsummated marriage is easy. If both spouses publicly deny ever having sex, and if no one comes forth to contest that claim, then they both remain free to marry someone else. The unconsummated marriage is automatically annulled as soon as the new marriage is consummated.


That means that if Daemon was not too proud to admit that he never slept with Rhea, then their marriage could have been over decades ago. Neither of them had to die.

The only downside for him is losing any claim to inherit Runestone, and perhaps receiving some public mockery for impotence.

(A consummated marriage could also be ended by taking the black. Upon swearing his vows to the Nightswatch, a man is legally considered dead. His heirs then immediately inherit, unlikely children from an annulled marriage who would generally be considered bastards retroactively and lose any right to inherit. I don't know if it has ever been tested, but since the Kingsguard vows were based on those of the Nightswatch I assume that taking the White Cloak would be considered the same as taking the Black and would also let a married man end a marriage honorably. Both of those options would preclude a remarriage though, and call for an actual death penalty if the vows of celibacy are broken. I had thought in earlier episodes when Daemon kept talking about how he wanted to end his marriage and also craved public recognition of his devotion to protect his family that it might be wise for Viserys to try to convince him to join the Kingsguard, although I knew the show would never diverge that far from the book.)

Spoiler major spoilers based on book knowledge and episode titles :

The episode titles give those of us who have read the book us a pretty good idea of what may happen when:

1 "The Heirs of the Dragon"
2 "The Rogue Prince"
3 "Second of His Name"
4 "King of the Narrow Sea"
5 "We Light the Way"
6 "The Princess and the Queen"
7 "Driftmark"
8 "The Lord of the Tides"
9 "The Green Council"
10 "The Black Queen"


King Viserys will be dead well before the end of episode 9. The Greens are Alicent's faction. The Green Council convenes as soon as Viserys dies and conspires to keep his death a secret until Aegon II's coronation.

The Blacks are Rhaenyra's faction. The Black Queen is obviously Rhaenyra herself, when she finally learns of Alicents betrayal and has Daemon crown her on Dragonstone. She is already married to her uncle and has 2 sons with him by then, as well as the three "strong" boys who she claims are from Laenor, and miscarries a deformed daughter upon hearing the news.

Before they could marry, both Laenor and Laena (whom Daemon will soon marry) have to die. Those deaths would fit well with the titles of episodes 7 or 8. Driftmark is the island home of the Velaryons (and the name of their old decrepit castle, although their current seat is the fancy palace Corlys built called High Tide) and Lord of the Tides is the official title of Lord of House Velaryon.

Episode 8 could also fit well with the introduction of some bastards who claim that Laenor was their father, although most people think they were really Coryls's own natural sons that he had been hiding from Rhaenys until he needed a new heir. The show might save then until season 2 though, as they are not legitimized until after one becomes a dragonrider for Rhaenrya during the height of the war.

 

[BenitoChavez]

What do the trees with the weeping faces mean? They were in GoT and they're in this show too but I don't remember an explanation being given for them.

To elaborate a bit, it simply makes no sense to argue that rules of social reality are by default either different (you can kill and be left alone, no problem - moreover he killed another ser for no apparent reason) or that such a thing is in continuity with "Westeros" in the other show. Anyone highborn or with title killed there had to happen after some scheme or with the permission of the local ruler, otherwise it was punished. The mountain didn't even kill the knight of roses, and yet the guard tried to stop him from leaving the ground until the king himself ordered them to let him go - and the mountain was later declared a false knight for killing commoners, and his own death was ordered by the hand.
So while it'd be irrational to claim that it's ok to change social reality (or that it changes automatically because there are also dragons/whatever), it is also demonstrably false that this was an established social reality in the "Westeros" setting.

Well we haven't really seen a lot of fallout from the wedding because all the dramatic stuff happened right at the end of the episode. What little we did see was the Queen Alicent seemed sympathetic to Ser Criston. And we already know he and Rhaenyra were in a relationship. So having the favor of both the queen and the princess/heir to the throne will probably protect him from any major consequences. Unless they're self inflicted of course. Presumably we'll know more after the next episode.

 

[lymond]

Ha..i liked Lady Rhea too

Spoiler :

we hardly knew ye

Good epi indeed

 

[Birdjaguar]

it is also demonstrably false that this was an established social reality in the "Westeros" setting.

Read the books if you want to understand the "social reality" of Westeros and how killing and violence fits in.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well we haven't really seen a lot of fallout from the wedding because all the dramatic stuff happened right at the end of the episode. What little we did see was the Queen Alicent seemed sympathetic to Ser Criston. And we already know he and Rhaenyra were in a relationship. So having the favor of both the queen and the princess/heir to the throne will probably protect him from any major consequences. Unless they're self inflicted of course. Presumably we'll know more after the next episode.

It is why I gave some examples from show GoT, where repercussions from violence (not even as serious as murder) were immediate. I don't see how continuity can be established when those (counter) examples clearly exist.

@Synobun , I was being ironic in my post about how (why) you found the show episodes boring. I suppose you got that already, but there was a bit of a misinterpretation there so wanted to make sure (and can't pm you )

 

[Birdjaguar]

Major spoiler about coming changes in the cast.

Spoiler :

They anchored the earliest episodes of one of the biggest shows on television, but Milly Alcock and Emily Carey have no idea what they’re doing next — including whether or not they’ll ever return to the “Game of Thrones” prequel, “House of the Dragon,” in flashbacks or otherwise.
“I don’t even know what I’m doing tomorrow,” Alcock said. “So no idea.”
“I don’t even know what I’m having for dinner!” Carey added.
The performers are at loose ends after originating two of the primary characters in “Dragon”: Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen (Alcock), heir to the Iron Throne of Westeros, and Queen Alicent Hightower (Carey), who hopes her offspring will one day usurp the claim of her one-time best friend. The fifth episode, which aired Sunday, was the end of their tenure; a narrative time jump will see Emma D’Arcy take over as Rhaenyra and Olivia Cooke as Alicent. For Alcock and Carey, it’s a time of uncertainty.

“Me and Emily had this conversation today,” Alcock, 22, said during a conference call from London last week. “We were like, ‘I don’t know what the [expletive] I’m doing any of the time now.’ I’ve been pacing.”

“Milly paces, and I sit and do Lego, and that’s the vibe,” Carey, 19, added.
“That’s the vibe,” Alcock echoed.
Like the characters they portray, these two actors have been asked to shoulder an enormous burden at a young age. They’ve been crucial components in HBO’s big-budget gamble that fans of “Game of Thrones,” the network’s fantasy phenomenon, would flock to a prequel set nearly 175 years before Daenerys Targaryen was even a twinkle in the Mad King’s eye. But that gamble has paid dividends, and Alcock’s and Carey’s skills in depicting their characters’ complex relationship has been a key to the show’s success.
Where do things go from here? Alcock and Carey are wondering, too.
These are edited excerpts from the conversation.

Editors’ Picks​

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Image[IMG alt="“House of the Dragon” hinges largely on the relationship between Rhaenyra (Alcock, left) and Alicent (Carey), friends turned rivals."]https://static01.nyt.com/images/202...pg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale[/IMG]
“House of the Dragon” hinges largely on the relationship between Rhaenyra (Alcock, left) and Alicent (Carey), friends turned rivals.Credit...Ollie Upton/HBO


The two of you anchored the first five episodes of the spinoff of the biggest show in HBO history, which has become a huge hit in its own right. How have your lives changed?

MILLY ALCOCK There’s been a great sense of terror, of fear, of excitement. But there’s also been this utterly welcoming reassurance that me and Em have the privilege of being able to do this for the rest of our lives. That’s something that any actor dreams of: having a sense that it’s not all going to fall apart underneath you.

Return to Westeros in ‘House of the Dragon’​

HBO’s long-awaited “Game of Thrones” prequel series is here.​

• A Fantasy Face-Off: A few episodes into “House of the Dragon” and Amazon’s “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power,” here’s an early comparison between the two prequel series.
• The Sea Snake: Lord Corlys Velaryon, one of the most powerful people in the Seven Kingdoms, is a fearless sailor. Steve Toussaint, the actor who plays him, does better on land.
• A Rogue Prince: Daemon Targaryen, portrayed by Matt Smith, is an agent of chaos. But “he’s got a strange moral compass of his own,” the actor said.
• A Violent Birth Scene: Was the gory C-section in the show’s premiere the representation of a grim historical reality, an urgent political statement or a worn cultural cliché?

EMILY CAREY It’s strange, being visible. For me, that’s the main thing that’s changed: going from being able to blend in, to being seen.
On a fundamental level, this story hinges on Rhaenyra and Alicent. How was their relationship reflected in the relationship between the two of you as actors?
CAREY We’re very lucky in that we get along in real life, so the chemistry came very organically. We’re quite like our characters.
ALCOCK They’re very similar.
CAREY I’m very type-A, very anxious and very dutiful. I follow the rules. Mil’s a lot more like Rhaenyra in that sense. [Both laugh.] But I see Milly as a big sister, which is different than the characters are onscreen. Still, that closeness you see between Rhaenyra and Alicent is definitely a reflection of ours in real life.

ALCOCK Me and Em went through a very similar experience that our characters went through: We were both thrown into this massive role, and when it actually happened, you don’t know how to react. We’re two very young women who haven’t done massive projects before, in an environment full of men, having to live up to this opportunity. We were forced to hang on to each other for dear life.

CAREY And we haven’t let go yet.
ALCOCK God, no. It’s not going to happen.
It’s also a story about families.
ALCOCK It’s ultimately about dysfunctional fathers, at the heart of it, which I can relate to.
CAREY The same. Been there.
ALCOCK Done that.

Image
[IMG width="733px" alt="“We’re very lucky in that we get along in real life, so the chemistry came very organically,” Carey said."]https://static01.nyt.com/images/202...pg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale[/IMG]
“We’re very lucky in that we get along in real life, so the chemistry came very organically,” Carey said.Credit...Kalpesh Lathigra for The New York Times


One of the show’s central themes, about women’s autonomy over their own bodies and futures, has become even more salient since production began, with the U.S. Supreme Court overturning Roe vs. Wade.
CAREY I think that’s what makes the show so watchable, relatable to a modern-day audience. It’s so much more than fantasy and dragons. There’s grounded, truthful topics and story lines that reflect the world we live in.

ALCOCK It explores the trauma that these two women would have faced within that world — not only the patriarchy, but the internalized misogyny. These two women are forced to battle with one another because of the choices made by men.

The irony of social media being like, “I don’t want to say goodbye to Milly for Emma,” or comparing Em to Liv! That is what the whole show is about, and people are still doing it. So it’s clever.
How much have you worked with Emma and Olivia on —
ALCOCK We didn’t, at all. Nothing. Zero.
Interesting!
ALCOCK I know. [Laughs.]
So you must be as curious as anybody to see how the characters will continue without you.
CAREY Yeah, I’m so intrigued. We didn’t even read the scripts that we weren’t in, so we know very little about what happens after we leave.
ALCOCK We weren’t given [the scripts]. I’ve asked for them so much, and they were like, “No, you cannot.” I’m going to be watching on the edge of my seat, because I want to know what’s going to happen.

What does it feel like to hand the reins of Rhaenyra and Alicent over to new actors?
ALCOCK I’m so excited to see what Emma did with Rhaenyra. There’s no way I could have played her in the later stages of her life because I don’t have the same lived experience that Emma has. So I’m so keen.

CAREY I love the way you worded that, Mil. That’s so true. When people say, “Do you wish you could do the rest of it?,” I’m always like, “I don’t know.” I don’t think I have the capacity.
But I will be honest: It’s strange handing off a character that is so personal. As actors, we put so much of ourselves into the people we play. So it’s strange having to leave someone’s story halfway through.
At the same time, it doesn’t feel unfinished because it’s going into obviously amazing hands with Olivia. It’s going to be really cool — and weird — to watch the show as a viewer and not be critiquing our own performances, and just take it in and appreciate the show for what it is.

Do you feel there was a sublimated romantic or sexual tension between Rhaenyra and Alicent?
CAREY As a queer person myself, I read an undertone in the script that I knew could be played. That being said, I don’t think Ryan Condal [a creator and showrunner] sat there writing a Sapphic drama. If you want to see it, you can. If you want to pretend it’s not there, you can also do that.
The thing is, these girls don’t know what “platonic” or “romantic” means, whether that be the words or the feelings themselves. There’s just a closeness between two young women that cannot be verbalized, especially in the world they live in. I don’t think they fully understand the feelings; it’s just all-consuming love.

There’s an underlying jealousy that I read into it, especially coming off the back of Episode 4. It was this scene where we were on a bench, and it’s the first time we’ve seen these two women reconnect after losing this closeness they had. I remember in rehearsal at the end of the scene, we were like, “Did you feel like we were about to kiss?”

ALCOCK And I was like, “Yeah!”
CAREY Yeah, dude, it felt like we were going to kiss. That was really strange.
We didn’t do anything to make them gay, or to force “the gay” upon anyone. It felt so natural. As I said, it’s easy to ignore if you really don’t want to look at it. But if you’re rooting for them and you want to make the story more heartbreaking, then choose to see it.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

What do the trees with the weeping faces mean? They were in GoT and they're in this show too but I don't remember an explanation being given for them.

Those are Wierwood trees. The First Men believe that Wierwoods are sacred to the Old Gods. The Children of the Forest believe that the Wierwood trees ARE the Old Gods.

When the first men first arrived in Westeros they tried to destroy all the wierwood trees, as they believed that the Children of the Forest were spying on them through the trees. They were right.

The First Men had Bronze Age technology and bred quickly, which was a big advantage against the Children who were stuck in the paleolithic era and had long lives but very low fertility. The Children of the Forest used their magic to create the White Walkers as a weapon against the First Men, but then lost control of them and had to ally with Men against them. As part of their alliance, the First Men gave up their original deities and adopted the Children's practices of worshiping the Old Gods. The First Men carved faces in every Wierwood they found, believing it would help their gods see and hear them.

Some humans, most of them of First Men blood, and a larger number but still small minority of the Children are Skinchangers, with the ability to put their mind into beasts to control then or even live a second life if their original body dies while the mind is in the other form. Shinchangers whose host animals are wolves are the most common type, and are called Wargs. A tiny minorty of skinchangers are also Greenseers. All of the Stark children in GoT were wargs. Brandon Stark was a greenseer, a shinchanger so powerful that with sufficient training he could not only slip his consciousness into animals but also into plants, rocks, streams, and the wind.

Before a greenseer can expand his vision towards practical omniscience, he must "Marry the tree." The Wierwood tree is the most potent host for any skinchanger. They can live for many thousands of years, and they keep a record of everything that they have sensed happen around them. They are also a repository of the memories of every greenseer whose mind has ever touched the tree before. Greenseers bodies tend to be frail and their natural lifespans shorter than average, but the tree can sustain them for a long time and preserve their memories and consciousness indefinitely. Wierwoods do not experience line as linear. Some think that skinchanging into a wierwood may not only allow recounting memories from the past, but also the future.

There is also a belief that any man killed before a Wierwood, whose blood is absorbed by the roots, will also have his memories added to the collective consciousness. It is hinted that human sacrifice to the wierwoods was once a common practice. By the time of Game of Thrones that had died out except among a few groups of Wildlings beyond the wall, but even Ned Stark made a point to perform executions and to clean his sword in a location where the blood of the dead man would reach the wierwood roots.

Wierwoods are white with red leaves and sap that could pass for blood. They never have any green parts. They produce no chlorophyl. A wierwood never grows by itself, as its roots needs to leech nutrients from other plants. Some think that it prefers to nourish itself on blood.

The majority of a wierwood is located underground. When wierwoods grow near each other, their roots touch and intertwine in a complex network some fans liken to a nervous system. There is a theory that the roots may extend so far that every wierwood's roots connect somehow to the roots of every other wierwood, forming a brain with a collective consciousness that is the oldest mind in Westeros. A Greenseers in training can make contact with one wierwood in order to indirectly see what is happening near other wierwoods on the other side of the continent.



The worshipers of the Old Gods hold all of their ceremonies and prefer to swear their oaths in front of the face of a wierwood. There is a belief that no one can be more cursed than one who lies and swears a false oath before the face of a wierdwood, as Rhaenyra does in episode 4.

Some (like the Men of the Nightswatch) may make journeys to sacred groves deep in the wilderness to visit the wierwoods there, but most worshipers of the Old Gods keep a Godswood within their castles or settlements. At the center of a godswood there was always a Heart tree, which should be a wierwood. However, all attempts to grow a wierwood in the godswood of the Aerie failed. By the time of Game of Thrones, the Godswood of the Red Keep in King's Landing also lacked a proper wierwood heart tree and had to make do with an Oak.


Most of Westeros no longer follows the Old Gods. The New Gods of the Faith are commonly called the Seven, but they are actually believed to be seven different aspects of the one and only true god. It is based on the Trinity, but expanded to 7 persons instead of 3. The Faith teaches of 7 heavens and 7 hells, but the lingering consciousness within the wierwood is the only afterlife in the religion of the old gods and is hinted to be very real.

Worship of the New Gods were brought by the Andals, who invaded Westeros thousands of years ago and introduced iron age technology to a continent that was still suck in the Bronze Age, although there are anomalous references to some iron or even dragonsteel used by the First Men in the Age of Legends or in the crown of the Stark Kings of Winter. The Andals conquered in some regions, but more peacefully integrated into others, often marrying into the ruling families already in place. The early Andals were as fanatical in wiping out Wierwoods as the First Men had been before the creation of the White Walkers, although eventually they came to tolerate and even emulate the common practice of keeping a godswood even if they only treated it as an ornamental garden and not a holy place.

Early in the book Game of Thrones it is stated that no wierwoods grow anymore south of the Neck, as the Andals destroyed them all, but that is later proven false. Wierwoods within Godswoods are fairly common the Riverlands, and there are still groves of wierwoods growing wild within the Rainwood of the Stormlands.

The worship of the Old Gods will have a major revival in the riverlands after the Dance of the Dragons, as the war leaves many widows there who end up marrying men from the army of Cregan Stark. They marched south just as Winter was coming, in part to aid their side in the civil war but mostly because they thought it more honorable to die in battle than to starve to death or be a burden on families who could barely feed themselves. The war was really over by the time they arrived in King's Landing, but they did not want to go home during winter, so they instead helped repopulate the Riverlands. The region went from being as dominated by The Faith as the rest of Westeros south of the Neck to being almost 50-50 worshipers of the Old Gods and the New. If that had not happened then it is unlikely that the Riverlands would have joined in acclaiming Robb Stark as King in the North.

There were always a few families in the Riverlands, as in the Vale and Westerlands, who had always resisted conversion to the New Gods and kept the old. The most notable was House Blackwood, whose sigil was a wierwood surrounded by Ravens. They claim their hearttree was poisoned and killed by the Brackens (who were among the first of the First Men houses to convert to the Faith of the Seven) and some point during their millennia long feud. (Note that in the previous episode it was a Blackwood kid who killed the Bracken who had been taunting him. The Tree Eyed Raven, the Last Greenseer before Bran Stark, was his descendent.)

The most sacred site to the Old Gods in all of Westeros is the Isle of Faces, within a lake called the Gods' Eye, which is located in the Riverlands near Harrenhall. It is said that the pact between the Children and the First Men was signed there. It is covered in forests with far more Wierwoods than anywhere else. A sacred order called the Green Men are said to tend the trees there, although almost no one has ever seen them. The weather in the Gods's eye is very strange and drives all boats away. The only 2 people are known to have visited the Isle in the past thousands of years: Howland Reed, and a dragonrider who sought advice from the Green Men during the upcoming civil war.

It may be worth noting that wierwood wood never rots or decays in any way. It can last thousands of years unchanged, but eventually will turn to stone unless it is burned.

Since the Godswood of King's Landing has a wierwood in this series but only an oak in GoT, I suspect that at one point we are going to see a battle in the godswood where the heartree will be engulfed in dragonfire.

 

[RobAnybody]

Polite request: when people put stuff in Spoiler tags, could y'all specify if it's "stuff from the show & I'm trying not to spoil the episode that just aired" vs. "these are Book spoilers"? I've read the original GoT books, but not the stuff that relates to this show, so while I'm watching the show pretty much asap & am not concerned about show spoilers & so I will click on those spoilers with no concern, I would like to try to avoid Book spoilers about future events. No big deal, just a request. For the most part people have already been doing that, just hoping to make it more of an "unofficial policy".

EDIT: Also, so as not to make a separate post, I'm actually surprised how much I am enjoying this show. It's a little formulaic, paint-by-number as compared to the original show, but I still can't wait for each new episode. It probably helps that I came in with lowered expectations due to the end of GoT. I'm fully Team Rhaenyra at this point.

 

[aelf]

If anything, I feel it's pretty hard to entertain the idea that the Targaryens, basically a military dictatorship in monarchical form, is so worried about rebellion that they're afraid to have a queen on the throne, about which only petty male chauvinism seems to be an issue. One would think that if their position is so precarious, they would have long been toppled, being invaders who had subjugated the locals through the threat of unbeatable violence. They either have enough power to ignore such a petty problem, or they have too little power to still be holding on to the kingship.

 

[Birdjaguar]

They are the only ones with dragons and I don't think they fear being toppled by the lords of Westeros. Family troubles are more difficult because then both sides can put dragons into action. The various lords just have to pick sides and hope they pick the winner.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

They are the only ones with dragons and I don't think they fear being toppled by the lords of Westeros. Family troubles are more difficult because then both sides can put dragons into action. The various lords just have to pick sides and hope they pick the winner.

Technically, at this point in the story, the Targaryens are not the only ones with Dragons. The Velaryons have dragons too. If you count Coryls's wife Rhaenys as a Velaryon, then the Velaryon dragon riders outnumber the Targaryen dragon riders.

Of course, Laena and Laenor are also Targaryens on their mother's side, and in the books the two families have interbred so often for the past couple hundred years that they should all be considered the same family.



Viserys himself has no dragon since Balerion died shortly after his first and only ride.
Daemon's dragon Caraxes is the most aggressive and most battle tested beast, but Daemon is a wild card that can be hard to depend upon and could try to press his own claim instead of supporting Viserys' children unless Rhaenyra marries him.
Rhaenyra's dragon Syrax is still young at this point and not battle tested.
Laenor's dragon Seasmoke is smaller and younger than Syrax, but does have battle experience (at least in the show) so a fight with Syran might be about even. Neither is likely to win against any of the larger dragons.
Rhaenys's dragon Meleys is about the same size as Caraxes but is much faster and more agile than any other living dragon.
Laena Velaryon controls Vhagar, which is their trump card. Vhagar, is now slightly larger and more powerful than Balerion when Aegon claimed him. She is starting to get slow, but is still the most powerful beast in the world. (We see Laena on Vhagar during the preview of the next episode. I was thinking they'd show her claiming her next week, even though in the books she had her long before the events of the previous episode, but read online that claiming Vhagar was in a deleted scene shot for episode 2.)

Vhagar, Meleys, and Seasmoke are currently of about the same size, strength, speed, and power as Balerion, Meraxes, and Vhagar were when Aegon and his sisters used them to conquer Westeros. If not for Syrax and Caraxes, the Velaryons could probably conquer the whole realm as easily as Aegon did if Coryls chose to do so.


The marriage of Rhaenyra and Laenor was considered so important because it keeps all of those dragons on the same side, supporting Rhaenyra's claim. If she had wed someone the Velaryon did not like, they could have rebelled and taken the realm for themselves or made her brother their puppet king.

The marriage alliance probably would be enough to ensure her secession, if Viserys keeps the dragonpit of King's Landing and Dragonstone guarded closely enough to ensure that no one else, including his own children with Alicent, are allowed to claim dragons of their own to contest Rhaenyra's faction.

Spoiler from book and from the preview trailer for next week :

Unfortunately for the realm, all 4 of Alicent's children will become dragon riders quite soon.

It is widely believed that only the Blood of the Dragon, descendants of the dragonlords of Old Valyria, have the ability to bond with a dragon. That might not be true though.

Spoiler fan theory and a little book stuff :

It is possible that bonding with a dragon has nothing to do with Valyrian blood ad that the dragonlords just let people believe it does so that they can be seen as closer to the gods than to men and not be challenged by the many other men who could claim dragons too. Viserys hints to Rhaenyra that this is the case.

There is a fan theory that dragonbonding is actually just a form of skinchanging, and that in theory any skinchanger could control a dragon. If that is the case, then there are hundreds if not thousands of potential dragon riders from First Men families. Jon Snow's dragonriding ability could have come more from his mother than his father, as the Stark blood has long carried Warg potential.

If the Targaryen dragon riders really are all skinchangers, then perhaps Daemon had a more direct role in killing Rhea by having his consciousness enter her horse.

Even if dragon riding does require dragonlord blood, then the Targaryens and Velaryons nare not the only ones with that blood. There are plenty of smallfolk on dragonstone who have the blood of the dragon, because Targaryens practiced the Right of the First Night there for a couple centuries and produced many bastards known as Dragonseeds.

The most famous Dragonseed was Orys Baratheon, the founder of House Baratheon, who was Aegon the Conqueror's bastard half-brother. The current Baratheon lord also descends from Alyssa Velaryon, the mother of King Jaehaerys who has Targaryen blood from earlier marriages. Baratheons should definitely be able to bond with dragons if given the chance.

There are dragonriders later in the story are neither Targaryen nor Velaryon, although most are probably descended from bastard of those houses. Only one does not look anything like any Valyrian at all, but neither do Rhaenyra's first 3 sons and they all ride dragons.

 

[RobAnybody]

If anything, I feel it's pretty hard to entertain the idea that the Targaryens, basically a military dictatorship in monarchical form, is so worried about rebellion that they're afraid to have a queen on the throne, about which only petty male chauvinism seems to be an issue. One would think that if their position is so precarious, they would have long been toppled, being invaders who had subjugated the locals through the threat of unbeatable violence. They either have enough power to ignore such a petty problem, or they have too little power to still be holding on to the kingship.

I learned a new term this week: "presentism". It means assuming people in the past should conform to *our* present day values. That kinda explains it.

 

[Gorbles]

Except for the minor point that this is a completely made-up magical historical realm with dragons, and wights, and whatnot. Applying presentism to fantasy, is, in a way, attempting to enforce what you think the norm (for fantasy) should be, based on what is or was the norm historically.

 

[lymond]

If anything, I feel it's pretty hard to entertain the idea that the Targaryens, basically a military dictatorship in monarchical form, is so worried about rebellion that they're afraid to have a queen on the throne, about which only petty male chauvinism seems to be an issue. One would think that if their position is so precarious, they would have long been toppled, being invaders who had subjugated the locals through the threat of unbeatable violence. They either have enough power to ignore such a petty problem, or they have too little power to still be holding on to the kingship.

It's based on Medieval England and the Anarchy (several centuries before [jane]>Mary>Lizzy), which was basically a civil war when Empress Maude was left as sole direct heir due to The White Ship disaster. Her cousin Stephen took the throne. She technically took it back for about 8 years but was never crowned Queen, being called Lady of England instead (because, yeah, males)...then Stephen took it back again.

Applying presentism to fantasy, is, in a way, attempting to enforce what you think the norm (for fantasy) should be, based on what is or was the norm historically.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this statement, but does it not actually mean the opposite of this...

Anyway, the world is made up, but GRMM is a history buff who based these stories on real Medieval events and characters, and reflected the politics and more of the time....still, of course, with strong female characters but, regardless, having to deal with the patriarchy. I noted the event of HoD above which actually predates the real-life events of GoT (War of Roses) which predates the first technical queen of England in Mary I (or arguably Lady Jane). In many ways, GRRM wrote books like historical fiction. Sure, there are some fantastical elements like dragons, but really in the course of the very long book series, there wasn't really all that much magic.

 

[Samson]

It's based on Medieval England and the Anarchy

I thought it was based on the War of the Roses?

 

[Gorbles]

Anyway, the world is made up, but GRMM is a history buff who based these stories on real Medieval events and characters, and reflected the politics and more of the time....still, of course, with strong female characters but, regardless, having to deal with the patriarchy. I noted the event of HoD above which actually predates the real-life events of GoT (War of Roses) which predates the first technical queen of England in Mary I (or arguably Lady Jane). In many ways, GRRM wrote books like historical fiction. Sure, there are some fantastical elements like dragons, but really in the course of the very long book series, there wasn't really all that much magic.

If I have written a story based on historical parallels, but have introduced literal mythological or fantastical elements, it ceases to became "historical" in terms of cultural norms and values. Anything that is preserved, is preserved by choice (of the author). There can be (and often are) parallels, but if we're assuming that "wights" actually means "wights" (in GoT) and isn't a poor stand-in for the Celts or the Crusades or whatever (and I believe GRRM to be too good a writer to fall into that trope; his worldbuilding seems solid). The conflict itself may be inspired by a historical conflict, but the sides have been completely recreated in-universe (in fantasy).

People complaining that others are enforcing modern morals on a fantasy book fail to realise that this is a modern(ish) book(s) written by an author who makes intentional choices when portraying his characters (and notably, GRRM has more input on HoD than apparently he did with GoT). If it's not a historically-accurate adaptation of a historically-accurate book, claims of presentism fall by the wayside, because everyone external to the writer is projecting their own personal values onto the source material. Not just the folks allegedly engaging in presentism.

 

[lymond]

I thought it was based on the War of the Roses?

Nope, that’s GOT. I did mention that in my post.