How can there be a God?

[Communisto]

I am an Italian/Irish mix so my religion of descendancy would be roman catholic. However my parants never impossed a religion upon me and let it up to me to see what I would beleive instead of being brain washed. At first i wanted to go the way of my ancestors but decided there must be more than just religion.
After years of interest in World History and an unusual obsession with politics for my 13 year old self i have come to this conclusion. I am an Atheist. How can there be a God? I wish i could beleive my life could be governed by some divine plan and that an eternal good can come from this mess of blood and anguish that is Earth.
And i have proof of this; 9/11, the Iraq Coup, the British Empire, the Third Reich, the Crusades, the Plague, the World Wars, Slavery, Aids, the list goes on. I have no problem with people beleiving what they want, an interest in history almost insantly brings tolerance, but I just don't get it. The bible, the Koran all made by men, normal people in a time of histeria and chaos.
I am not out to offend people, but is religion more trouble than it's worth? I know it gives people guidance, but it causes so much suffering. I really would like to follow a religion, but just can't follow a being that is reall because some dude in Judah claimed he was his son. I just think it is sad that the only way we can do good is by fear of punishment and our own self-preservation.

Religious people, how can you follow a religion, i am just curious, and i do NOT want to offend anyone, but what are your views on what i've said. Fellow Athiests what do you think of what i've said and how did you come to you're conclusion?

 

[Yom]

How can there not be a God? Something must have caused all of this to exist. There must be some eternal thing as if the universe is not eternal, the emptiness that follows it must be. Even if there are different universes created continuously, that would mean time is eternal. Since infinite must exist in this case, there must be something to cause it. On the other hand, the universe could have always been and always will be, in which case one could argue that everything you see is God, like Spinoza. I believe in God, but not necessarily the literature written by man regarding his powers. Most of these are arbitrary and baseless.

 

[SolarKnight]

I understand what you are saying communisto.

I can understand that the universe looks magnificent, and that the planet seems to be just right for us to exist, but why just because we are here must we have been created by some kind of supreme being?

I also don't mean to cause offence, I am happy for peope to believe what they want, the problem normally lies in the fact that there are some people that see atheists as lesser people, (not really on this board but in places I have seen them) or they believe that if you don't believe in god that you can never be happy or complete.

At times it does seem as if a lot of bad things have links to religion, but I look at it like this, religion is just another thing that was created by man to help others or to help control others, whatever the case may be. Either way it is a man - made creation that is open to be exploited, and there will always be people who choose to exploit things.

My view on the subject is that yes religion can and may have been linked to terrible things in the past, but you have to remember that without people there can be no terrible acts, religion on its own cannot be used as the cause.

Anything created by a human can (potentially) be used or exploited for someones gain, not just religion.

 

[Birdjaguar]

After years of interest in World History and an unusual obsession with politics for my 13 year old self i have come to this conclusion. I am an Atheist. How can there be a God? I wish i could beleive my life could be governed by some divine plan and that an eternal good can come from this mess of blood and anguish that is Earth.
And i have proof of this; 9/11, the Iraq Coup, the British Empire, the Third Reich, the Crusades, the Plague, the World Wars, Slavery, Aids, the list goes on. I have no problem with people beleiving what they want, an interest in history almost insantly brings tolerance, but I just don't get it. The bible, the Koran all made by men, normal people in a time of histeria and chaos.
I am not out to offend people, but is religion more trouble than it's worth? I know it gives people guidance, but it causes so much suffering. I really would like to follow a religion, but just can't follow a being that is reall because some dude in Judah claimed he was his son. I just think it is sad that the only way we can do good is by fear of punishment and our own self-preservation.

Religious people, how can you follow a religion, i am just curious, and i do NOT want to offend anyone, but what are your views on what i've said. Fellow Athiests what do you think of what i've said and how did you come to you're conclusion?

Which god you are rejecting? The catholic god, the prostestant god, the jewish god, the hindu gods, the orthodox god? My god? Dumbpothead's god? The god you choose to accept or reject will determine what your expectations for the world are. To the Hindus, bad stuff going on is part of the world and expected. If your view of god is that of an all knowing, all powerful being who directs actions in the world, then you ought to be upset and disappointed in him. He has done a lousy job if his goal is a world of happy healthy people. By changing your definition and role for god, you will change you expectations for what to expect in this world.

 

[Communisto]

im talking about some mystical being/beings dictating the way the world works, And lets just face it, catholic, protestant, orthedox, jewish, christ is christ.

 

[gael]

You can't rubbish religion just on how people interpret or use it for thier own gains and warped ideas.

It runs a bit deeper than that.

 

[slothman]

I don't believe in a god because it has not been scientific proven. Therefore I am an agnostic. God does not need to exist for anything to be. The universe could have formed without a god. If you don't think so then how could god form? Wouldn't he need a "supergod" to come to be? And isn't that contradictory from the Christian monotheism? If God or any gods existed from the start why can't the universe? Maybe the universe existed in some other form, "blew up," and formed the one we know? That's actually what I think. Now yes it also requires faith but it is more likely and can be proven true or false. God can not be.

 

[Birdjaguar]

im talking about some mystical being/beings dictating the way the world works

Of course that's a silly view of god and worthy of rejection. You should explore the other varieties of god that people believe in before you reject all gods out of hand.

And lets just face it, catholic, protestant, orthedox, jewish, christ is christ.

Many people have died disputing that very point. So you mean christian gods are the only ones allowed for discussion?

 

[stratego]

Just because there are many interpretations of God doesn't mean God doesn't exist. When you look up in the sky and see the pattern of planets moving across the sky, you can come to the conclusion that 1) The planets orbit around the earth in a circular path 2) The planets move around the earth in a circular path and yet move in circles around that path 3) The planets are not moving at all, and only the earth is spinning 4) The earth orbits another mass and rotates also. Whatever is happening is really happening, nobody really knows what's the real deal, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I don't believe in a god because it has not been scientific proven. Therefore I am an agnostic. God does not need to exist for anything to be. The universe could have formed without a god. If you don't think so then how could god form? Wouldn't he need a "supergod" to come to be? And isn't that contradictory from the Christian monotheism? If God or any gods existed from the start why can't the universe? Maybe the universe existed in some other form, "blew up," and formed the one we know? That's actually what I think. Now yes it also requires faith but it is more likely and can be proven true or false. God can not be.

If you choose to limit yourself to reason only, you are correct.

 

[stratego]

I don't believe in a god because it has not been scientific proven.

Would you believe in an apple if it's not mathematically proven?

 

[PantheraTigris2]

Animals eat eachother everyday. OH! How can there be a God?!
People die in hospitals everyday. Oh, the humanity! Yeah, well - life's tough.

First of all, don't blame man's foolishness (because afterall, we have the power of choice), and say it's all God's fault. And second, He is the Lord of lords, who are you to question and criticize the details of his grand creation (which by the way, you are a part of).

 

[SolarKnight]

We may have a choice of wether or not to do things, but that doesn't have to be given to us by a supreme being, saying we are all part of gods creation is an opinion, not proven fact.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

That goes back to the 'prove God exists' thread(s).

It's all about what you, personally, believe. And speaking only for myself, it's not just some 'idea', where I say, "hmmm, I think I'll believe... THIS", I know good and well what spiritual laws I am governed by. It's all too obvious - to the core of my being (aka 'spirit') - what the situation is. If everyone else is free to run wild with no consequences, hey - good for them. All I know, is what applies to me. But ,seeing as how all men are supposedly created equal, I don't buy into this idea that people just 'simply don't know' God. Oh yes you do. Everyone has a relationship with Him. Maybe that relationship is suffering a complete lack of communication, frustration and anger, or whatever - but people know what's going on. That's why they talk about it in places like this thread. They have these feelings, and want to understand better.

 

[Yom]

I don't believe in a god because it has not been scientific proven. Therefore I am an agnostic. God does not need to exist for anything to be. The universe could have formed without a god. If you don't think so then how could god form? Wouldn't he need a "supergod" to come to be? And isn't that contradictory from the Christian monotheism? If God or any gods existed from the start why can't the universe? Maybe the universe existed in some other form, "blew up," and formed the one we know? That's actually what I think. Now yes it also requires faith but it is more likely and can be proven true or false. God can not be.

How can you prove that everything in the universe was contained in a single super-massive dot? Just because the universe is expanding doesn't mean that it had to always have been expanding (how do they know its expanding, anyway?).

 

[Communisto]

Animals eat eachother everyday. OH! How can there be a God?!
People die in hospitals everyday. Oh, the humanity! Yeah, well - life's tough.

First of all, don't blame man's foolishness (because afterall, we have the power of choice), and say it's all God's fault. And second, He is the Lord of lords, who are you to question and criticize the details of his grand creation (which by the way, you are a part of).

i don't like it when people call their god, my lord. One of the main reasons atheism apeals to me is the idea that I am not ruled by something that is not proven real. No being is my 'master' i am governed, even bossed depending on the circumstances but i am not a slave.

as for christian gods being the only ones i discussed. Well im not talking about christian gods, more supreme beings, gods of all religions.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

How can you prove that everything in the universe was contained in a single super-massive dot? Just because the universe is expanding doesn't mean that it had to always have been expanding (how do they know its expanding, anyway?).

We don't even know how to manufacture blood, or cure the common cold virus. To think that we 'thoroughly understand' the vast expanses of the entire universe/ aka God's creation - is beyond laughable.

 

[PantheraTigris2]

i don't like it when people call their god, my lord. One of the main reasons atheism apeals to me is the idea that I am not ruled by something that is not proven real. No being is my 'master' i am governed, even bossed depending on the circumstances but i am not a slave.

as for christian gods being the only ones i discussed. Well im not talking about christian gods, more supreme beings, gods of all religions.

You want to be the master of you own existence, life, and destiny? That option is available to you. You can live the way you want, indulge what you want, and believe what you want. You can make your entire existence exactly what you want it to be, and surround yourself only with what you want to be surrounded by. ...And that's not what our spirits were made to do. That's not our purpose, and it's not our intended function. But you can still do it... and in the end, you will know what the words 'emptiness' & 'unfulfilled' really mean, in their most extreme form.

 

[gael]

Can this arguement ever be won?

 

[PantheraTigris2]

Can this arguement ever be won?

It can be won... by those that believe, wearing down the patience of those that don't, guided by sheer persistent faith alone!


j/k