How comes there is no more a civ which is toward science ?

[Bino]

May I just add that since every Civ has access to eurekas, science is buffed for all of them already, it seems to me that adding more speed to a few of them is just meh.

 

[MACKA0ili]

May I just add that since every Civ has access to eurekas, science is buffed for all of them already, it seems to me that adding more speed to a few of them is just meh.

This. A straight boost to science would not only be uninspired but also conflict with their design that promotes "active research." The way to shoot up the tech tree in this civ is to hit eurekas and invest in great people and policies. A lot of the civs so far include ways to boost research through other means (brazil adjacency bonus, greece's wildcard slot, kongo's popuoation growth, etc) and I feel this supports the choice to make people engage more in their science growth rather than just beeline down the tech tree.

That being said, we still have yet to see an academy replacement from a revealed civ so that could be coming up in a first look video.

 

[Deggial]

"Active research" works for the culture tree, too, though and we have already plenty of dedicated cultural civs.
I really don't see, why a specialized scientific civilization would break the game more than a cultural one.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I have not seen anything that favors the argument: "science is overpowered".

Culture give access to alot of powerful stuff, fedualism, neighbourhoods, governments, very powerful cards and more.

Production build most stuff, what is the point with science if you can not afford to build the stuff. Given the lack of % buildings science do no longer multiple the effectivness of your economy.

All civilizations we have seen have very powerful stuff such as "true" unique units (units that do not replace a unit such as redcoat). Unique districts, buildings and improvements that give huge advantages in faith, culture and more. Unique abilities that give very significant bonuses.

 

[Willie5000]

I say don't worry. Science civs are coming. Just like the White Walkers and Dragons in Game of Thrones, the Science Civs are coming...

 

[MACKA0ili]

"Active research" works for the culture tree, too, though and we have already plenty of dedicated cultural civs.
I really don't see, why a specialized scientific civilization would break the game more than a cultural one.

It really wouldn't, a science focus would be fitting for a lot of the remaining civs yet to be revealed. It just would be a boring to have simple bonus to beakers. The dedicated cultural civs have so far have culture output that requires some thought from the player (British museums, France's middle game wonders/chateaus, Brazil adjacency again) so a science focused civ should follow suit

 

[Thormodr]

I am glad that there have been no Civs with direct science bonuses and hope that there won't be.

I don't want to see a repeat of Babylon and Korea again.

China historically has been powerful scientifically so their eureka bonus makes sense.

 

[RohirrimElf]

Maybe science civs (the remaining ones like Russia, sumeria and arabia) take more balancing/playtesting and are left for announcement last? Some unique science traits maybe?

I liked Arabia`s trade route mechanic. Maybe you get bonus science from trade routes as Arabia?
Russia late game science building that works together with spying?

Any thoughts?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Maybe science civs (the remaining ones like Russia, sumeria and arabia) take more balancing/playtesting and are left for announcement last? Some unique science traits maybe?

I liked Arabia`s trade route mechanic. Maybe you get bonus science from trade routes as Arabia?
Russia late game science building that works together with spying?

Any thoughts?

For Arabia, I'm guessing any science bonus is through the Madrasa UB Temple replacement.. it probably grants some science as well as faith

For Russia.. I could see something with spies being better at stealing tech, or a research lab type UB. (ie a fairly late bonus)

For Sumer..I could see them starting out with Pottery tech and/or maybe the Eureka or writing already (maybe more pop in the capital initially)....probably no ongoing bonuses.

 

[Ebrim]

For Russia, considering it's Peter the Great, I imagine him getting extra science bonuses through trade routes or some similar mechanic. He'd also probably have an agenda where he loves advanced science civs (Peter was a Dutchophile) and really dislikes those worse off from him.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I think Sumer, Rome and Arabia are both decent candidates for science bonuses. Russia too if they want to represent soviet style rapid modernization, but I don't think there will be the science civ like Civ 5 Babylon or Korea. In Civ 6 bonuses are more varied and civilizations have more than one area they focus on.We already have two science civs, it's just not the only thing they are good at.

China has a better Eurekas, but also has the same bonus for culture and a boost to infrastructure and early wonder production.

Brazil has a general jungle adjacency bonus -and certainly a jungle start bias- and will have very strong early science output from their Campus districts. Pedro's leader UA will also be pretty useful to get all kinds of GP, including Great Scientists.

Spain also has a small science boost from Missions adjacent to a Campus, but is mostly about spreading their religion, religious wars and trade. Spain's strengths would actually also be a pretty good fit for Arabia, so I guess Arabs will get more of a science bonus to not make them too similar.

Other civs also have abilities that can easily be used to boost research.

You're playing Germany ? Build a Campus in every city.

Japan ? Surround every Campus with other districts.

Kongo ? Possible jungle start bias means better adjacency bonuses for the Campus in the capital. No Holy Sites means no need to research Astrology, so you'll probably be one of the first to research Writing (which is also required for Currency, which you also want early for the Great Merchant points). Then there's the population growth from the extra food you get from Statues, Relics and 'Mbanzas (although we don't know yet if population provides science like in V).

I also think that with the civics tree science won't be as powerful in Civ 6 as it was in earlier games. You always needed enough production and money to actually build all the things you research, but the governments and policies you research through culture can immediately be used with no further investment.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

For Russia, considering it's Peter the Great, I imagine him getting extra science bonuses through trade routes or some similar mechanic. He'd also probably have an agenda where he loves advanced science civs (Peter was a Dutchophile) and really dislikes those worse off from him.

Well I think a spy tech bonus might work for that

-it only helps you "level up" to another civ
-if it was a Leader Unique it would reflect Peter's undercover journey through Europe

 

[Thormodr]

Arabia wasn't anything special scientifically. They did help preserve a lot of Greek thought and wisdom, to their credit. Sadly the myth of the Islamic Golden Age is persistent, however.

Russia I could see having a science bonus the most out of the remaining Civs. They have produced some brilliant scientists over the last few hundred years.

I also hope that Korea, which will inevitably come later, will not get any bonuses to science as that doesn't jive with the historical record.

 

[DefiantMars]

Personally speaking, I'm not a fan of mono-yield is rather boring. I think things are far more interesting when two or more systems are intertwined. Which is why I'm not a big fan of Greece's bonus. I like the extra policy slot, but the raw culture that's just boosted version of the cultural district doesn't really appeal to me. It's not bad, just lacking in dimension... In my opinion anyway.

I think that the Faith-Science or Trade-Science directions would be fair and interesting. Both of those have a real life basis, right?

Regarding Espionage-Science, how does the new Steal Science work again? Does it take Eurekas?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Personally speaking, I'm not a fan of mono-yield is rather boring. I think things are far more interesting when two or more systems are intertwined. Which is why I'm not a big fan of Greece's bonus. I like the extra policy slot, but the raw culture that's just boosted version of the cultural district doesn't really appeal to me. It's not bad, just lacking in dimension... In my opinion anyway.

I think that the Faith-Science or Trade-Science directions would be fair and interesting. Both of those have a real life basis, right?

Regarding Espionage-Science, how does the new Steal Science work again? Does it take Eurekas?

It gives you Eurekas....whether that is only from techs the other civ has completed, or only those they got the Eureka for (or only techs they Both completed AND have the Eureka for) is uncertain.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

May I just add that since every Civ has access to eurekas, science is buffed for all of them already, it seems to me that adding more speed to a few of them is just meh.

What? Eurekas apply to culture just as well and we've seen plenty of cultural civs. And anyway, a buff for everyone is equivalent to a buff for no one.

Anyway, I agree with the people who suggest that Russia will probably be a science civ. Civ IV Russia had the Research Laboratory unique building (admittedly one of the worst UBs in the game, but still). Peter the Great loved Western technology. Russian scientific achievements include the periodic table, sputnik, classical conditioning, and a lot more. This will probably happen.

 

[Zaarin]

Arabia wasn't anything special scientifically. They did help preserve a lot of Greek thought and wisdom, to their credit. Sadly the myth of the Islamic Golden Age is persistent, however.

...The European Renaissance would have never happened without Islamic science. Islamic astronomers hugely expanded the field of astronomy (it's not a coincidence that the overwhelming majority of stars have Arabic names). Islamic scientists invented the fountain pen. Al-Andalus had running water when the rest of Europe was overrun with sewage. Medieval Arabia was second only to Song China among the most advanced nations of the world at the time, and arguably overtook China. The backwardness of Medieval Europe may be frequently overstated, but that's no reason to slight the scientific advances of Medieval Islamic scientists.

 

[Thormodr]

...The European Renaissance would have never happened without Islamic science. Islamic astronomers hugely expanded the field of astronomy (it's not a coincidence that the overwhelming majority of stars have Arabic names). Islamic scientists invented the fountain pen. Al-Andalus had running water when the rest of Europe was overrun with sewage. Medieval Arabia was second only to Song China among the most advanced nations of the world at the time, and arguably overtook China. The backwardness of Medieval Europe may be frequently overstated, but that's no reason to slight the scientific advances of Medieval Islamic scientists.

Quite a few of these scientists were not Arabs. IIRC, Persians were renowned for their astronomy.

I would presume that an Arabian Civ would focus on the Arab people, no?

We wouldn't want another "Celtic abomination" that you speak so fondly about, now would we?

 

[Zaarin]

Quite a few of these scientists were not Arabs. IIRC, Persians were renowned for their astronomy.

I would presume that an Arabian Civ would focus on the Arab people, no?

We wouldn't want another "Celtic abomination" that you speak so fondly about, now would we?

Yes, the Persians were renowned astronomers as well, and incidentally Persia is one of those civs that you can take in pretty much any direction you want because they excelled at everything at some point in their long existence--culture, government, religion, science. But you don't have to look to Persia to acknowledge the important scientific advancements made by the Abbasid Caliphate.

 

[joncnunn]

On the original topic:

1. I note that China already has a science (& culture) boost in the form of a larger bonus from boosts. (60% instead of 50%)

2. I would agree that it is likely that Sumer, which as I recall was on the leaked list of civs for Civ VI, will have some sort of science bonus.