How comes there is no more a civ which is toward science ?

[Thorburne]

You're absolutely right about the electronics factory, that one slipped my mind.

And that's a good point about faith and gold. Even culture has two uses, unlocking civics and expanding borders.

The yields that only have one use are food and science. It's probably not a coincidence that those are also the yields with the least representation among Unique Infrastructures.

It's more surprising that there aren't more production focused UIs. Production can also be used to make a lot of things, including some things that other yields can't make, like archeologists and wonders.

With all of that in mind, I think the Bath will affect housing. Makes the most sense and lends to the expansionist part of Rome.

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[Paramecium]

I dont want to have a pure science focused civ, too. But until now, UI/UD/UB providing some extra science yields are totally missing, only spain's mission so far.
But culture, the new second "science source" itself is represented by a lot of UI/UB/UD so far.

Science was king until now for sure. But its importance was dimished by splitting the tech tree and mostly that building in the campus seem to give you a flat bonus and the science output from population doesnt seem to as big as in civ 5. And mostly, until now, only the suzerain bonus of geneve giving you some % bonus and only if you are at peace.

Until now, from those civs which get some kind of bonus to science, only China is a "classical" science oriented civ and that eureka bonus is in my opinion no DIRECT science boost.

And if you look at it, the civ with the biggest science advantage so far is Brazil if it has enough jungle around it. Only maybe Japan can catch up in later production. But if you focus a lot on science with Brazil, I see no true contester so far for it. I dont want to offend any people from Brazil, but Brazil isnt a country/civilization that comes to my mind if I think about civilizations who are known for their contribution to science.

So for me, there has to be at least one civilization with some science focus bigger then brazil's and spain's.
And yeah, maybe only Rome might not fit that role, Sumer, Russia and Arabia could work very well here and I hope so, that at least some UD/UB/UI with additional science yields will get revealed.

 

[zocki]

There are bonuses to science but more subtile than in previous civ games and more spread among the various mechanics of the game(unique improvements, eureka bonus, adjacency bonuses, the wildcard from greece can be used for a science boost).

 

[Jabulani]

This thread made me curious, so I went ahead and looked at all the Unique Infrastructure to see which yields are represented the most.

6 Faith (tlachtli, sphinx, stepwell, stave church, kurgan, mission)

Faith is represented a lot, which isn't really surprising. Almost every civilization in all of history has had its own unique religious structures, so they're an easy source to mine when coming up with ideas for unique buildings or improvements.

5 Gold (great wall, royal navy dockyard, chateau, mbanza, kurgan)

I was not expecting gold to be the second most common yield. The rationale behind some of these seem a bit odd. Why does a gravestone produce money? Probably shouldn't thank too hard about that.

4 Culture (great wall, sphinx, chateau, acropolis)

Culture is also well represented, though not as much as you might think. Notably, every culture-producing Unique Infrastructure except the chateau were wonders in previous Civilization games.

3 Great Person Points (tlachtli, street carnival, royal navy dockyard)

This is sort of cheating, since they all produce different kinds of great people, but I don't want to make this list any longer than it already is.

2 Amenities (tlachtli, street carnival)

2 Tourism (film studio, great wall)

2 Production (hanse, electronics factory)

2 Food (stepwell, mbanza)

2 Housing (stepwell, mbanza)

Most yields are only represented by 2 Unique Infrastructures. So far, anyway.

1 Defence (great wall)

1 Promotions (royal navy dockyard)

1 Science (mission)

Military specific bonuses and science are only represented on one Unique Infrastructure each. Is this because structures dedicated to learning and education tended to be pretty homogenous, even among civilizations with radically different cultures? It gives you something to think about, at least.

Thx Ivan Hunger to have put numbers over my statements, science has been banned fron civ VI.

Sorry to repeat my concept but if devs couldn't find a way to tone down the science power that's not a valid reason to ban science stuff from civ vi. Or to relegate it in a dark corner like it was a problem.

If even Russia won't have at least some science flavoyrs I seggest Ed Beach to talk to Sid to change the name of this game that has banned science which has always been the dna of this fascinating game.

 

[cazaderonus]

Thx Ivan Hunger to have put numbers over my statements, science has been banned fron civ VI.

Sorry to repeat my concept but if devs couldn't find a way to tone down the science power that's not a valid reason to ban science stuff from civ vi. Or to relegate it in a dark corner like it was a problem.

If even Russia won't have at least some science flavoyrs I seggest Ed Beach to talk to Sid to change the name of this game that has banned science which has always been the dna of this fascinating game.

Your rant is senseless.... if something has forever been OP, making everything else in the game somewhat secondary and thus funneling people into the same kind of play every time, i dont see how changing it is betraying the game's DNA.

Also science is not banned. It just seems less potent than it was before. This "it was always done like this so why do it any different" kind of opinions are just grinding my gears. Especially as we havent laid hands on the game, nor know all the civs. So crying about how science has been destroyed, banned from the game is just pointless.

 

[NukeAJS]

Since culture is basically a secondary tech-tree, all culture civs are de facto science civs.

 

[Scaramanga]

There is this new thing called Active Progression. They don't want you to just select a path down the tech tree and forget about it, so a strictly scientific civ is well... banned yes.

 

[skyclad]

Thx Ivan Hunger to have put numbers over my statements, science has been banned fron civ VI.

Sorry to repeat my concept but if devs couldn't find a way to tone down the science power that's not a valid reason to ban science stuff from civ vi. Or to relegate it in a dark corner like it was a problem.

If even Russia won't have at least some science flavoyrs I seggest Ed Beach to talk to Sid to change the name of this game that has banned science which has always been the dna of this fascinating game.

If science is banned from civ why does brazil get bonus science from jungle? Why does japan get bonus science for adjacent districts? Why does germany get more campuses? Why does china get bigger eurekas? Just curious to your reasoning...

 

[ZTZaorish]

Civ VI seems to be against science, there is plenty of culture and religious paths and festivals here and there, not to mention economic proness civs and stuff.

To my horrid view there is no more a civ which loves science, apart the tiny Chinese Eureka little extra mini bonus.

Also structures, wonders etc are against science, apart the old library and university, civ vi consider science as an illegal practice to be wiped out from the game.


Being myself a civ player since civ I ( yes I'm quite a granny ) I think Sid had a very marginal role in Civ VI suggesting only to let the player take more decisions, other than that, Ed Beach killed science and I blame him for such a crime.

What's your opinion ? Could you please gimme few hints on how to squeeze some science out from civ VI apart chinese libraries and universities ?

Thx !

It may just be part of the design this time around. The issue with science civs has been that they just sit there getting farther and farther ahead without having to go out of their comfort zone too much, yet yielding great results in terms of how well they would do. (Note: This may not translate to MP) lol

Anyways, on top of that, the fact that science was always king in civ, it is good to see them take a step back, and play it safe this time around. Maybe they will eventually choose to release a civ that is scientific, who knows, we'll just have to see.

 

[MACKA0ili]

Although I share op's want of a Science civ, I don't think that science has been nerfed as badly we think. Taking a look at both the civics and tech tree, the amount of both and the paths available for advancement becomes smaller for civics and much greater for techs at the end of the Renaissance era. (Edit: Looking at the tech tree again, the amount of paths and techs actually stay pretty consistent which is to say that even early game research can be as flexible as late game)

Science is still going to be king mid-late game when you can beeline for some modern or atomic tech that unlocks powerful units/buildings whereas advancement for the civics tree is locked behind ideologies and then only offers 7 atomic/information era civics. The only reason we haven't seen this is because of narrow time frame we've seen for gameplay.

Cultural development is a lot more important for early civilizations both in game and in real life.

 

[steveg700]

If science is banned from civ why does brazil get bonus science from jungle? Why does japan get bonus science for adjacent districts? Why does germany get more campuses? Why does china get bigger eurekas? Just curious to your reasoning...

It's not "banned", just not directly buffed. You buff culture, gold, production, faith, population, and that yields bennies that can improve the speed of teching up.

Can't really think of any civ's that focus on science specifically, to the exclusion of other focuses. Science is usually in the service of military, civic, or commercial goals.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Thx Ivan Hunger to have put numbers over my statements, science has been banned fron civ VI.

Sorry to repeat my concept but if devs couldn't find a way to tone down the science power that's not a valid reason to ban science stuff from civ vi. Or to relegate it in a dark corner like it was a problem.

If even Russia won't have at least some science flavoyrs I seggest Ed Beach to talk to Sid to change the name of this game that has banned science which has always been the dna of this fascinating game.

Now hold on there, friend. There may not be many unique infrastructures that improve science, but there are a lot of good reasons why that might be the case, and not all of them have to do with science being crazy OP.

For one thing, there just aren't a lot of unique centers of learning across the various peoples of history. Certainly not when compared to places of worship or cultural monuments. How many different ways can you build a house with books in it? Not a lot.

The second thing to consider is from a gameplay perspective. Science doesn't do anything but unlock techs. It may be a powerful yield, but it's also kind of a boring one. At least culture expands your borders. Science doesn't have any direct effect on the map at all!

And the other thing to consider is that science isn't alone in being underrepresented in Unique Infrastructures. Other basic yields like food, production, and tourism are also pretty scarce. So it's not like science is being singled out! Some yields get more, and some get less. Science just happens to be in the "less" category.

 

[maedden]

I believe the reason for the fact there is no real science civ out yet is that it snowballs too easy, e.g. the Maya pyramid in CiV... Early game science boost gets you sooner to new science buildings that make your early science advantage even bigger. Apart from giving you military advantages, more time to build wonders, more culture buildings etc etc

So from what I see for Civ VI so far is that they try to avoid that by not giving you early-game boosts that translate directly into snowballing for one specific victory condition from the start. E.g. bonus culture and faith don't lead to culture or religious victory as directly as science does for science victory. Tourism on the other hand is comparable to raw science, which is why the american tourism bonus kicks in very late (film studio + national park bonus).

I could imagine Russia to get a late-game science building (as already suggested by others here). So you will have it easier with that victory, but you won't snowball into it from the start.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I believe the reason for the fact there is no real science civ out yet is that it snowballs too easy, e.g. the Maya pyramid in CiV... Early game science boost gets you sooner to new science buildings that make your early science advantage even bigger. Apart from giving you military advantages, more time to build wonders, more culture buildings etc etc

1. Civ6 Greece/Pericles seem to be doing the same thing with Culture.

2. The problem of Civ5 is what other parts of the game are optional. You can skip expansion after initial wave and still perform well. You can effectively defend yourself while building only a couple of units for the whole game (at least up to Emperor level). You could have mediocre culture output and still have all the policies you need. In those conditions science-focused civs really shine.

 

[dturtle1]

Yeah i am little worried about Greece Cultural Snowball, especially now that culture is on parity with science as far as unlocking power.

Interestingly thought though is that Science is weaker in civ6 and therefore Science based uniques should also be weaker. I wouldn't go and give a Civ the National College equivalent in the Classic Age or anything but a Unique science boost based in the Renaissance/industrial Era could work well. Lets have a look at the remaining Civs.

At this time there is Sumer- Ancient
Arabia- Medieval
Rome- Classical
Russia- Industrial

Sumer is pretty scientific, (Apparently they invented Writing and the Wheel.) The Epic of Gilgamesh describes his pursuit of Knowledge and Immortality. I would be very much surprise if he wasn't Scientific. He is the standout candidate for the Unique Campus though I would like to see something that boosts Ancient and Classical Science but doesnt effect future techs. That way Sumer gets an important early Boost in Science, allowing the rest of the game to proceed much more smoothly.

Arabia- I really can't see this Civ as a Scientific much at all. the Madrasa Schools maybe a unique Science building but their focus was religion, Expect to see the same in Civ6. I see Arabia being Military with Religion, maybe Anti-Spain. I wouldn't mind Saladin's unique ability revolving around the Casus belli, considering the polite and dignified relationships he had with the Crusader Kings, particularly Richard the 1st

Russia definitely has a claim to some kind of Science boost. Whilst Rome probably does not. The question i would like to know is will their be a Unique Campus District(i am guessing Sumer, Russia doesnt really make sense, being a traditionally later civ) and considering that unique districts are free, How won't it be a ridiculous snowball machine ?

 

[maedden]

1. Civ6 Greece/Pericles seem to be doing the same thing with Culture.

The thing is that the culture tree does NOT unlock the cultural victory, thats done via tourism which we know almost nothing about yet. But it is definitely a second resource required which is independent of raw culture output, although most likely linked.
Ofc I am assuming here that the Science victory works similar to CiV, unlock & build several parts resp. projects.

And about Sumer as an early science civ: They could get a UI that provides science, probably way easier to balance than a UD since percentage modifiers of CiV are no longer a thing

 

[dturtle1]

The thing is that the culture tree does NOT unlock the cultural victory, thats done via tourism which we know almost nothing about yet. But it is definitely a second resource required which is independent of raw culture output, although most likely linked.
Ofc I am assuming here that the Science victory works similar to CiV, unlock & build several parts resp. projects.

And about Sumer as an early science civ: They could get a UI that provides science, probably way easier to balance than a UD since percentage modifiers of CiV are no longer a thing

Greece Culture Concerns is less about Victory Conditions and more about Snowballing Power provided by the Culture Tree

Considering every district has a unique variant, i think it is safe to assume that the Campus gets one as well.

 

[Xur]

Dynastic Cycles China
Gets a larger boost from Eurekas and Inspirations

Dunno if you guys are blind, so I tried to make it easier to read. A boost to the eurekas is a flat out bonus to research... end of thread...

 

[dturtle1]

So One Minor Boost. considering the boost also affects Inspirations, one can not simply proclaim it as a primarily science boost. One minor boost doesn't make a science focused Civ, hell the Brazilian rainforest boost and Spain's missions are just as strong. None of them i would call science based Civ. Thanx for your contribution though

 

[need my speed]

Why would anyone turn Rome into a science-civilisation? It just doesn't fit.