How do you out tech the computer on Immortal+ ?

[AbsoluteZero]

In the past I've won games on immortal by keeping even or just under the AI in the tech race and playing smarter ( backstabbing, attacking with cannons etc ).

But I saw a few posts here where some people were talking about actually getting a lead in tech vs the AI. Then attacking the AI when you have superior technology.

I just cannot seem to do this. I play on normal size pangea maps on normal speed.

If I establish 4-5 towns and just tech like a beast, ignoring everything else, and assuming the AI doesn't declare war on me, I can maintain the tech lead until about the 1500's. At that time a few of the AI's catapult ahead of me ( specifically AI's like mansa mansa, or whoever vassals mansa mansa ), getting rifling etc while I am still researching it.

I've tried not trading any tech's to the AI so they don't have any help, but that doesn't seem to keep them down either.

Any pointers would be helpful.

 

[Leventis]

I've tried not trading any tech's to the AI so they don't have any help, but that doesn't seem to keep them down either.

Big problem. In short, you need to do the opposite and trade aggressively with your allies. Emphasise researching techs the AI does not favour and trade them around.

 

[kossin]

6 cities minimum. More cities = more research, more production. Just don't start crazy REXing before you have established an economy.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Big problem. In short, you need to do the opposite and trade aggressively with your allies. Emphasise researching techs the AI does not favour and trade them around.

No, I recently tried not trading tech to the AI's. I usually do trade tech to the AI's and they still catch up about the same time.

6 cities minimum. More cities = more research, more production. Just don't start crazy REXing before you have established an economy.

Ya but this is a pangea map, the AI's are everywhere. I either have to rex fast and do the economy thing later, or never get to 6 cities because everyone else takes the land.

Most games, I'm lucky if I have put down 5 cities.

I have had a few games where I was able to block the AI off, but that is rare, also sometimes the AI will not like being blocked and declare war.

 

[Mutineer]

well, most of the time you can not, but some times if you are lucky.. There a few examples I can show, look on my saves here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=365258
and there
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=361447

2 very different ways to achieve same result.. tech superiority.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I saw an impressive save there of rifling at 700 AD. The save of yours at 1200 AD is not a big deal, I do that all the time, what's striking is the AI's are all so far behind you.

But question is, what kind of map was that on? Fractal?

I'm playing on Pangea maps and the AI's all keep each other up to speed tech-wise. With tech oriented AI's it's even worse.

 

[Shurdus]

Btw, welcome to civfanatics, AbsoluteZero!

 

[MkLh]

I saw an impressive save there of rifling at 700 AD. The save of yours at 1200 AD is not a big deal, I do that all the time, what's striking is the AI's are all so far behind you.

But question is, what kind of map was that on? Fractal?

I'm playing on Pangea maps and the AI's all keep each other up to speed tech-wise. With tech oriented AI's it's even worse.

Well, you can keep up with Immortal techers if you really focus on it. Here's my old save, 500 beakers at 580AD (fractal but virtually pangea since 5 civs are on the same continent), I don't think that any AI beats that ATM. But is this is the most efficient way to play after all.


View attachment Elli10 AD-0580.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[TheMeInTeam]

In the "Pro with Engineering" game, I had < 300 beakers/turn until after 1200 AD, and only about 600 beakers/turn at 1600-1700 AD.

I finished just behind tech leader, and only because I shut research down after nukes/paratroopers/tanks to finish the game (because seriously, what else could you possibly need after that?). I was the first one to nukes.

Rusten, U Sun, and others have put up infantry ~1100 AD or sooner so if you want a GROSS beaker rate, you have combine high early BPT and bulbing...nearly perfect micro.

But that's for deity, not immortal. To stay in tech at immortal, you need to kind of sort of micro, and research techs you can trade. As long as you get good mileage via trades, even relatively shabby beaker outputs can stay with immortal AIs. I had like 80 beakers/turn at 700 AD and was at PARITY in techs...not ideal, but also not awful because if you have enough land and set up your defenses properly, you can survive until you can properly mop someone up, either because they were ostracized in the tech game (heathens, super warmongers, and super peacemongers that are hated tend to fall that way), or just because you have enough production to put a nice stack together for a proper beatdown or .

 

[RedKi-rr]

Well, I think you shouln't restrict yourself from trading with but instead of this to try AIs are angry with each other (so, ideally, they will trade only with you). But for this, one should have perfect diplomacy skills.

 

[georgjorge]

How to out-tech them at Deity without cottages, by Unconquered_Sun...

The last link is a detailed report, but the first two links are more impressive (5-city empire getting Liberalism at 300AD).

Unconquered_Sun's BOTM 10 write up can be found here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292211&page=3 starting at post #45 for the first part of his game.

The second part can be found here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=294282&page=3 starting at post 50.

His Justinian University Thread can be found here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242211

 

[RedKi-rr]

Could you please refresh the first two links? It seems they don't work.

Edit: I read the last thread with pleasure! And I'm under impression! Is there any Warlords diety games by Unconquered_Sun?

 

[georgjorge]

Sorry, changed the links to work now.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

The game examples from Unconquered Sun definitely helped.

In my current game I managed to get 6 towns, which was lucky, and now I am the tech leader researching railroading at 1500. Nothing compared to the 100 ad liberalism but it's an improvement. Also bribed shaka into war against a lot of AI's along the way, hehe.

I guess I have always favored the bronze age type conquest, which is very hard to do on normal speed immortal+. Waiting all the way till tanks is somewhat boring to me.

 

[Duckweed]

You don't need to out tech them, the only important thing needed is to get double land of AI. Either by critical block, an early rush of a close neighbor, or a medieval or renaissance war to make a kill. Absolute beaker output means nothing, it's all map dependent. My tech rate ~1000AD has ranged from 300 to 2K plus.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Has anybody here ever won the race to Liberalism at Immortal level? At lower levels, I would just beeline to Literature, build Great Library, runs lots of scientists in Thebes to get Great Scientists to bulb some of the other stuff (Philosophy, Education, Liberalism). I have not been able to do that at Immortal. Is there some other formula I could try?

 

[georgjorge]

The above links show it on Deity, so I think some have on Immortal . But it's possible even without heavy bulbing if you start to cottage early or run Representation.

 

[JammerUno]

@Ram-Rul
It's a matter of having good early tech; once you get into the paper/edu/lib bulb straight, you just need to get out the GSs. Play for early bpt, it's far more critical that mid- and lategame bpt, IF you manage to use your techadvantage while you get it. That's also why most first imm+ wars are rifle/cav: it's the easiest techgap you can exploit with good results.

 

[Nares]

No, I recently tried not trading tech to the AI's. I usually do trade tech to the AI's and they still catch up about the same time.

Era bonuses starting around the renaissance will really accelerate the pace of the AI. Depending on your tech path, you can quickly plow through from the medieval to the industrial/modern while ignoring much of the tech tree.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Immortal lib is possible in just about every game, although it might not be worth rushing it THAT fast in isolation.

Winning lib does not = win, but it can be nice boost since trade tech winds lead you that way anyway.