How do you see Genghis Khan?

People need to be careful when reading accounts that were written by the Mongols' enemies. You need to take some of these stories with a large serving of salt.

Just look at some of the stories about Vlad Țepeș (aka Vlad III the impaler) for example. A lot of exaggeration and outright lying. Impaling mice in prison indeed. :rolleyes:

Here is another conqueror who has been literally demonized down through the ages. Especially by the Germans and German settlers as well as the Turks.

Vlad the Impaler's reputation was considerably darker in Western Europe than in Eastern Europe and Romania. The fame of his cruelty spread in the form of a pamphlet, seriously exaggerated, and promoted by Matthias Corvinus. Matthias tarnished Vlad’s reputation and credibility for a political reason: as an explanation for why he had not helped Vlad fight the Ottomans in 1462, for which purpose he had received money from most Catholic states in Europe. Matthias employed the charges of Southeastern Transylvania, and produced fake letters of high treason, written on 7 November 1462.

In the West, Vlad III Țepeș has been characterized as a tyrant who took sadistic pleasure in torturing and killing. The number of his victims ranges from 40,000 to 100,000.[19] According to the German stories the number of victims he had killed was at least 80,000. In addition to the 80,000 victims mentioned he also had whole villages and fortresses destroyed and burned to the ground.[20] These numbers are most likely exaggerated.[21]

The atrocities committed by Vlad in the German stories include impaling, torturing, burning, skinning, roasting, and boiling people, feeding people the flesh of their friends or relatives, cutting off limbs, and drowning[citation needed]. All of these punishments mainly came from things people did that displeased Vlad the most; stealing, lying, and adulterous relations. Other methods of punishment included skinning the feet of thieves, then putting salt on them and letting goats lick off the salt. This was a way that Vlad kept his people in order and taught them that stealing would not be tolerated in his lands. No exceptions were made: he punished anyone who broke his laws, whether men or women, no matter the age, religion or social class[citation needed].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_III_the_Impaler
 
You know, right after the illiterate slave destroyed 90% of all the books found between Brazil and Canada, as well as farms and irrigation systems, and so on and so forth.
That's a pretty extreme claim, don't you think? A lot of the records of Mongol brutality were written by their enemies, as mentioned above. And the libraries of Baghdad were destroyed by Hulegu, Chinggis Khan's notoriously brutal grandson, not Chinggis Khan himself. And while the Mongols probably destroyed a lot of irrigation systems, they also actively opened up trade, which would've helped repair things.
 
A lot of the accounts we can read about his destruction of cities and mass slaughter were written by his enemies. Furthermore, some of the numbers of people killed are a fair degree higher than the city's population at the time.
Also accounts of the Mongols supposedly killing 2 million people in one hour are basically a mathematical impossibility. All in all, I think he was no more ruthless than other leaders of his time.

I don't think one can discount the claims against him simply because they were made by his enemies. At some point, when lots of sources start claiming he's exceptionally cruel, some credibility starts attaching to their claims. Maybe he was in the range of accepted cruelty of the time, but I don't think he was in the middle of the pack.
 
I don't think one can discount the claims against him simply because they were made by his enemies. At some point, when lots of sources start claiming he's exceptionally cruel, some credibility starts attaching to their claims. Maybe he was in the range of accepted cruelty of the time, but I don't think he was in the middle of the pack.

I am not saying he was a saint by any means but he was no more cruel than other rulers of his day and age. Demonizing your enemy is the oldest trick in the book.

Anyway, I quite enjoyed this book Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford. It's a good read with a different viewpoint.
The book suggests that the western depiction of the Mongols as terrible savages that destroyed all civilization was due to the Mongol's dealings with the opposing hereditary aristocracies. In battle, the book claims, the Mongols always annihilated these ruling classes in order to better subdue the general population. Since, according to the book, it was these aristocratic classes that could write, their treatment at the hands of the Mongols was what was recorded throughout history. However, still following the book's line of argument, what was less well known was the treatment of the general population (peasants, tradesmen, merchants) under Mongol rule. The book states that in general Mongol rule was less burdensome on the masses due to lighter taxes, tolerance of local customs & religions, less capricious administration, and universal education for all.

Denigration

According to the books' narrative, the view of Genghis Khan changed during the 18th century:

Whereas the Renaissance writers and explorers treated Genghis Khan and the Mongols with open adulation, the eighteenth century Enlightenment in Europe produced a growing anti-Asian spirit that often focused on the Mongols, in particular, as the symbol of everything evil or defective... 254

Montesquieu writes disparagingly of the Mongols, as having "destroyed Asia, from India even to the Mediterranean; and all the country which forms the east of Persia they have rendered a desert." (The spirit of the Laws, 1748)

Voltaire, in adapting a Mongol dynasty play as an allegory on the present French king, described the Mongols as "wild sons of rapine, who live in tents, in chariots, and in the fields." They "detest our arts, our customs, and our laws; and therefore mean to change them all; to make this splendid seat of empire one vast desert, like their own."

Soon, the Asian inferiority model came to be regarded as the scientific view. The widely influential French naturalist Comte de Buffon, in his encyclopedia of natural history after many remarks disparaging the Mongol physique, described them as "alike strangers to religion, morality, and decency. They are robbers by profession." Translated from French into many European languages, his work became one of the classic sources of information during the 18th/19th centuries.

The Scottish scientist Robert Chambers wrote in a widely-read book:

The leading characters of the various races of mankind are simply representatives of particular stages in the development of the highest or Caucasian type. ... [in comparison, the] Mongolian is an arrested infant newly born.[12]

Soon it became clear that the Mongoloid race exhibited a close relationship to the orangutan, not only in facial traits but also in posture; both like to sit with folded legs in the "Buddha" position.

Mongolian features were linked to ******** people (as "arrested children"). [13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan_and_the_Making_of_the_Modern_World
 
Jack Weatherford is just a tad too sympathetic to Genghis Khan and the Mongols, even I noticed that when I read his book.
 
I am not saying he was a saint by any means but he was no more cruel than other rulers of his day and age.
But you've provided no evidence of this other then that it sounds nice and cautious.
Demonizing your enemy is the oldest trick in the book.
Indeed, so should we assume all those who have only been written about by their enemies have been much maligned, and we can safely assume that they were much better then they were described?
Because that would still place Genghis outside the pale of conduct for his era, because of the hundreds of saintly soldiers and kings who went about without any ill attributed to them.
 
Wow, madviking, referential humor that only two people on this forum would understand. Dayyyyyyum
 
That's the reason I resisted the temptation to say you've been plaguing Alan Scott for the last 60 years.
 
the eighteenth century Enlightenment in Europe produced a growing anti-Asian spirit that often focused on the Mongols, in particular, as the symbol of everything evil or defective... Voltaire...

I'm surprised by this. I thought that this was the era of chinoiserie? I haven't read the play that Weatherford mentions, but no-one reading Candide should mistake it for an accurate portrayal of other civilizations.
 
in my opinion:

1) he managed to create the largest empire in the world.

2) he was the first to unite mongolia.

3) he had religion freedom and a safe empire.

4) he didnt kill anyone in the citys that didnt resist.

Of course he killed many people and he was very brutal.

As a general he is a hero.
As a man he is a barbarian.
 
Dachs is special. He's secretly an elf. He was born two thousand years ago and has been growing younger ever since.

I thought it's because badgers are earth benders, and therefore have immortal souls or something.
 
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