How important is it for Firaxis to admit mistakes or acknowledge failure?

[Niallism]

For them or for me? I have no connection to Firaxis, and beyond general goodwill and solidarity towards all workers, their success affects me little.

For me it is very important. Honesty buys a lot of goodwill from me, and patience, and even playtime that can be assessed as part of their business metrics. Whether I wait to play, due to being irritated, or play more, is related to what they say.

For them, as a business decision? I honestly don't think either choice is a bad business decision. In marketing, as with all public dishonesty, it's all about how you present yourself, how you sell the message, whether of contrition or hope. The way you talk matters most.

More important to me than any of this is that people lift themselves out of consumerism and parasocial relationships to companies.

I play Civ. I have played every version of Civ that I know of, since the original. And I like Civ 7 a lot, just not the bugs and lack of QA. But I'm a consumer/customer, not part of their team. It's easy to get mixed up about this, with all the messaging to the contrary.

 

[Niallism]

Yeah in the corporate world you don't apologize.

Say you're running late for a board meeting and several other millionaires are waiting on you. When you arrive you thank them for their patience, you don't apologize for wasting their time.

This is not true. Some do, some don't. The corporations who have a toxic culture of blaming individuals for systemic issues or issues that are the fault of executives believe this is 'how the world works', but there are many corporations that are different.

I do freelance work for a lot of very famous multinationals, and see a surprising amount of variation. And of course, many of my clients, having only worked for their own company, believe their company approach to be the only way.

 

[sixty4half]

This is not true. Some do, some don't. The corporations who have a toxic culture of blaming individuals for systemic issues or issues that are the fault of executives believe this is 'how the world works', but there are many corporations that are different.

I do freelance work for a lot of very famous multinationals, and see a surprising amount of variation. And of course, many of my clients, having only worked for their own company, believe their company approach to be the only way.

It's not toxic behaviour to highlight the good qualities of others (thanking someone for their traits, in my story patience) instead of rehashing the mistake by apologizing. The Thank You is acknowledgement enough of the problem

Example; if Firaxis was to come out and say Thank you to all of the fans that have stuck with us so far. We know it's been hard but we really appreciate all of our fans. We hope you all enjoy Civ 7 and we hope you enjoy what we have coming.

I would respect a statement like that more than I would an apology which would come off as pandering to me

 

[CliffCo]

This happens after every new Civilization game is launched. People who like the previous one better go back to the previous one and then continuously tell the rest of us why we're wrong for liking the new one better. Then, Firaxis releases patches, DLC, and expansions and eventually the new game has more players than the old game.

When Civ6 was released did it really have as many issues as Civ7 is having, and were the player numbers on PC this low? I find it hard to imagine that being the case.

 

[sixty4half]

When Civ6 was released did it really have as many issues as Civ7 is having, and were the player numbers on PC this low? I find it hard to imagine that being the case.

Civ 5 did.

Numbers weren't as low but the launch was just as bad. Probably even more threads getting closed back in the civ 5 launch days than now.

 

[itix]

This is not true. Some do, some don't. The corporations who have a toxic culture of blaming individuals for systemic issues or issues that are the fault of executives believe this is 'how the world works', but there are many corporations that are different.

I do freelance work for a lot of very famous multinationals, and see a surprising amount of variation. And of course, many of my clients, having only worked for their own company, believe their company approach to be the only way.

There are differences, but company size also matters. Firaxis/2K is an AAA studio, Civ 7 is an AAA title with big budgets and it comes with greater responsibility.

 

[CivKirk64]

Define mistake? What some call mistakes others call features they like.
They've already been humble regarding bugs, admitted they have more to fix regarding UI and information displayed to players.
What do you expect? Would you feel better if they prostrated themselves in front of EU parliament?
What does it accomplish other than make entitled people feel smug?

 

[Leucarum]

Would you feel better if they prostrated themselves in front of EU parliament?

I love that as a choice of who they should applogize to. Just imagining a very confused von der Leyen.

 

[aelf]

What does it accomplish other than make entitled people feel smug?

Well, exactly.

 

[Gori the Grey]

What does it accomplish other than make entitled people feel smug?

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[marius_kaparius]

I think the only thing they should address from their side is the UX and they have.

 

[MutilationWave]

I think the only thing they should address from their side is the UX and they have.

I don't want to misunderstand you. Are you saying the current state of UX is acceptable?

 

[Askia Muhammad]

When Civ6 was released did it really have as many issues as Civ7 is having, and were the player numbers on PC this low? I find it hard to imagine that being the case.

No, in fact Civ 7s peak never reached Civ 6s launch numbers despite 6 also having some issues

 

[marius_kaparius]

I don't want to misunderstand you. Are you saying the current state of UX is acceptable?

Absolutely not, but they’ve acknowledged it is bad, even prior to release I believe in some ways.

 

[Siptah]

Absolutely not, but they’ve acknowledged it is bad, even prior to release I believe in some ways.

Yeah, when asked about it prior to release, they said that some things had to be prioritized which meant others didn‘t get the time they deserved.

 

[Askia Muhammad]

Yeah, when asked about it prior to release, they said that some things had to be prioritized which meant others didn‘t get the time they deserved.

I’ve got to be honest - I’m not quite sure what was prioritized when it comes to the UI. What we got is quite literally early alpha proof of concept level work.

The other thread that leaked the original UI really shows that the development was badly managed and botched. For me, I’d be willing to overlook the absolutely unacceptable and abysmal UI if I was able to enjoy the core game but it just doesn’t feel like Civ or a 4x to me (once again the ages, as executed, really kill it for me).

 

[CliffCo]

I know with some games including ARA you could sign up to be an alpha or beta tester, i've not heard of Civ doing this, does Firaxis only use their own in house testers? I feel like some of the current issues could have been fixed prior to release if there had been more people testing it.

 

[Siptah]

I know with some games including ARA you could sign up to be an alpha or beta tester, i've not heard of Civ doing this, does Firaxis only use their own in house testers? I feel like some of the current issues could have been fixed prior to release if there had been more people testing it.

They have a group of external testers as well. I would guess that many of them are forum members, but I don‘t know.

 

[Askia Muhammad]

I know with some games including ARA you could sign up to be an alpha or beta tester, i've not heard of Civ doing this, does Firaxis only use their own in house testers? I feel like some of the current issues could have been fixed prior to release if there had been more people testing it.

If the leak from the other post is to be believed (it included photos) they had a very solid and functional UI that was scrapped at the last moment due to somewhat bipolar decision making at the top of the development team

 

[Gorbles]

If the leak from the other post is to be believed (it included photos) they had a very solid and functional UI that was scrapped at the last moment due to somewhat bipolar decision making at the top of the development team

We saw a grand total of what, two or three UI elements? How do you extrapolate "solid and functional" from that?

(unless there was another "leak", I'm going on the video someone unearthed from a while back)