How important is it for Firaxis to admit mistakes or acknowledge failure?

[Askia Muhammad]

We saw a grand total of what, two or three UI elements? How do you extrapolate "solid and functional" from that?

(unless there was another "leak", I'm going on the video someone unearthed from a while back

We saw complete slides of the original narrative event UI, we saw massively different city UI banners. The visual appearance (what was shown doesn’t communicate if it was super functional) was leagues better than what we got,

It’s not hyperbole to say we got proof of concept level UI design in our supposedly finished product, the health bars in cities literally look like a late 80s BIOS screen. It’s embarrassing.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I see this come up again and again. Some people (not just here) seem to place some importance on Firaxis admitting that they made a mistake or acknowledging their failure with Civ7.

How effective do you think something like that would be in creating goodwill or boosting future sales (these might not necessarily go hand-in-hand)? And what, specifically, do you think Firaxis needs to do in terms of sending such a message? Some possible options (not mutually exclusive):

1. Admit the game was launched in a suboptimal state
2. Admit the launch was rushed
3. Acknowledge sales have been below expectations
4. Acknowledge that player reaction has been more negative than they expected
5. Admit they underestimated how negatively players would react to civ-switching/age transitions
6. Admit they made a mistake putting in civ-switching/age transitions

PS: This does not mean I personally believe any of the above that Firaxis is supposed to admit/acknowledge is true.

I think the game itself is rushed. as per 2K managements due to Trump fears.
Especially with WOKE - DEI are added to the mix and it tends to go ugly (and well against the audiences taste since the entire generation of audience is already accustomed to Waifu culture. and WOKE - DEI is a pure antithesis.

 

[Gorbles]

We saw complete slides of the original narrative event UI, we saw massively different city UI banners. The visual appearance (what was shown doesn’t communicate if it was super functional) was leagues better than what we got,

So, like I said, two or three UI elements. And now you're backtracking from calling it "functional".

It’s not hyperbole to say we got proof of concept level UI design in our supposedly finished product, the health bars in cities literally look like a late 80s BIOS screen. It’s embarrassing.

Nowhere was I arguing that the UI we got was in a good place. I'm saying you have no way of knowing what the rest of the UI looked liked during development.

You're making claims you have no way of backing up, based on the couple of screens we have seen.

 

[99-percent-sure]

the entire generation of audience is already accustomed to Waifu culture. and WOKE - DEI is a pure antithesis.

I don't understand what this is talking about in the context of Civilization. I looked up "Waifu," but it doesn't make much sense to me. What does idealized femininity from Japanese anime have to do with (I'm assuming) Harriet Tubman being a leader in Civ? I like that she's in there, and I am a Civ player. I do exist. Women play Civ. Queer people play Civ. Maybe the devs are hoping to expand that demographic by adding leaders they think people like me will want to play. How is catering to "Waifu culture," whatever that is, more important?

 

[AD1730]

I don't understand what this is talking about in the context of Civilization. I looked up "Waifu," but it doesn't make much sense to me. What does idealized femininity from Japanese anime have to do with (I'm assuming) Harriet Tubman being a leader in Civ? I like that she's in there, and I am a Civ player. I do exist. Women play Civ. Queer people play Civ. Maybe the devs are hoping to expand that demographic by adding leaders they think people like me will want to play. How is catering to "Waifu culture," whatever that is, more important?

Waifu culture ultimately is a rejection of the over-correction by video game developers from making unrealistically beautiful women (I'd say this period extends from gaming's earliest days until about a decade ago) to seemingly going out of their way to make women in games unattractive (for about the past decade).

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Waifu culture ultimately is a rejection of the over-correction by video game developers from making unrealistically beautiful women (I'd say this period extends from gaming's earliest days until about a decade ago) to seemingly going out of their way to make women in games unattractive (for about the past decade).

Just look at Catherine from Civ 5 and 7. see any differences?

 

[AD1730]

Just look at Catherine from Civ 5 and 7. see any differences?

I don't know. I think the current iteration of Catherine is a good middle ground.

 

[j51]

Just look at Catherine from Civ 5 and 7. see any differences?

I guess she looks kinda younger in 7? (What does this somewhat creepy rabbit hole have to do with the thread topic? Is it 2014 again?)

 

[aelf]

I think the game itself is rushed. as per 2K managements due to Trump fears.
Especially with WOKE - DEI are added to the mix and it tends to go ugly (and well against the audiences taste since the entire generation of audience is already accustomed to Waifu culture. and WOKE - DEI is a pure antithesis.

I mean, people have been swearing that wokeness has nothing to do with the reaction to the game. I don't get your point here.

 

[Isca Dumnoniorum]

At the risk of bringing the thread back on topic, I think CDPR handled the Cyberpunk situation with what my mother-in-law would call grace and they certainly won a lot of goodwill back with me. I'm not saying Civ VII is anywhere on the scale of the Cyberpunk launch debacle but for my part, some kind of community outreach from Firaxis would be welcome. I don't even think that needs to be an apology - just a 'we hear you' would give a lot of reassurance.

I think they struck the right balance with how they reacted to the UI hysteria complaints and I hope they apply the same template to the other features/changes that have proven to be controversial.

 

[King of Prussia]

I mean, people have been swearing that wokeness has nothing to do with the reaction to the game. I don't get your point here.

Nothing they said made sense. It was just a word salad of buzz words.

 

[AD1730]

At the risk of bringing the thread back on topic, I think CDPR handled the Cyberpunk situation with what my mother-in-law would call grace and they certainly won a lot of goodwill back with me. I'm not saying Civ VII is anywhere on the scale of the Cyberpunk launch debacle but for my part, some kind of community outreach from Firaxis would be welcome. I don't even think that needs to be an apology - just a 'we hear you' would give a lot of reassurance.

I think they struck the right balance with how they reacted to the UI hysteria complaints and I hope they apply the same template to the other features/changes that have proven to be controversial.

Yeah, I think the problem is that there is a difference between fixing major technical problems and satiating those who object to core gameplay mechanics. CDPR made major gameplay changes, particularly with leveling and clothing/cyberware, but those took a back seat to making the game playable from a performance perspective. Fixing the technical problems took the game from about a 3 to a 7, and making the gameplay changes took it from a 7 to an 8.

While I've heard of some technical issues with Civ 7, those seem to be far in the background when it comes to issues with the game.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I don't know. I think the current iteration of Catherine is a good middle ground.

I like Civ5 versions alot more.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Yeah, I think the problem is that there is a difference between fixing major technical problems and satiating those who object to core gameplay mechanics. CDPR made major gameplay changes, particularly with leveling and clothing/cyberware, but those took a back seat to making the game playable from a performance perspective. Fixing the technical problems took the game from about a 3 to a 7, and making the gameplay changes took it from a 7 to an 8.

While I've heard of some technical issues with Civ 7, those seem to be far in the background when it comes to issues with the game.

Even as of now there's still stinging bug that shouldn't happen. especially when loading autosaves to choose different alternatives when it comes to decision makings.
and even worse, which i've never mentioned anywhere before but experienced it. A strategic (Imperial) resource pops up at the turn that a minor power is about to become player's city state. and sometimes it blocks player's path completely.

 

[sixty4half]

Just look at Catherine from Civ 5 and 7. see any differences?

They're both more attractive than she was in real life.

 

[jaeenox]

Yeah, I think the problem is that there is a difference between fixing major technical problems and satiating those who object to core gameplay mechanics. CDPR made major gameplay changes, particularly with leveling and clothing/cyberware, but those took a back seat to making the game playable from a performance perspective. Fixing the technical problems took the game from about a 3 to a 7, and making the gameplay changes took it from a 7 to an 8.

While I've heard of some technical issues with Civ 7, those seem to be far in the background when it comes to issues with the game.

The developers need to just flat out say we are never changing the era mechanics so people can move on. Those that like it can pay for more DLC. The bean counters can then decide if Civ 8 goes back to the 1-6 formula or if 7 was hugely profitable despite 40% Steam ratings and eras stay in 8.

 

[Askia Muhammad]

So, like I said, two or three UI elements. And now you're backtracking from calling it "functional".

Nowhere was I arguing that the UI we got was in a good place. I'm saying you have no way of knowing what the rest of the UI looked liked during development.

You're making claims you have no way of backing up, based on the couple of screens we have seen.

I mean sure but the screens and UI elements are dramatically better than what we got and attached with those previews was an explanation that development at the top caused them throw it all out and they had to scramble to throw something together

 

[Lexicus]

1-6 formula

This is quite interesting. I would say that there is no "formula" for 1-6. To me, 5, 6, and 7 seem more similar to each other than to 3 or 4.

Broadly speaking I would say 2 iterated a lot on 1, then 3 was almost a new game, 4 iterated (a lot a lot) on 3, then 5 was almost a new game and 6 and 7 have iterated on 5 in various ways.

 

[Kwami]

I mean sure but the screens and UI elements are dramatically better than what we got and attached with those previews was an explanation that development at the top caused them throw it all out and they had to scramble to throw something together

From anonymous sources. That's not an official explanation.

Besides, the problem isn't really the boring grey boxes. The problem is the lack of information. We don't know if the beta UI had more information available or if it was just as bad as the release UI.

 

[Nikolai II]

Moderator Action: Stop discussing other posters.