How is the AI in BTS Compared to Warlords?

[JimTheGreat]

I got bored with Civ IV and Warlords, the AI just ruined the game for me. I haven't played since before the 2.13 patch was released. I always played with aggressive AI on, tried small maps overcrowded with civs, but the AI rarely ever fought with each other, and as long as I didn't bother them, they left me alone. Sure playing on harder difficulties made them more aggressive, but only toward me, they still didn't fight each other.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want the game to be constant war, but the last game I played I did an experiment to see how long I could go without building up my military. I played on noble difficulty so that we all played by the same rules. I only had one defensive unit in each city that bordered another civ. I made it to the gunpowder era before I was attacked. Two other civs did engage in a small war, but it was nothing major. All the did was cross each other's borders and destroy tile improvements. One of them asked me to help fight the other, and I refused. That AI was the one that later attacked me.

When he did, I was actually impressed with his tactics. He wasn't even bordering my civ, but he built up lots of units outside of my border in a civ's territory that he had open borders with. He then declared war and marched over and took out three cities in one turn. I immediately switched all of my cities to producing military units, but he took over about half of my territory before I built up enough to defend his attacks. Once he lost a couple of battles, he started begging for a cease fire.

I probably could have built up an attack force and retaken what I lost and continued to wipe him off the map, but I had seen enough. That was the last time I played.

I haven't played CivIV since before the 2.13 patch came out. I quit playing because the AI were too friendly. I always enabled the aggressive AI, and played small-medium maps crammed with lots of AI in it hoping to have wars early on to fight for territory. Only once did I ever see an AI civ wipe out another one.

The last game I remember playing, just as an experiment I purposely did not build many military units. I only had the conquest, cultural and domination victories enabled. I only kept one defensive unit in each city that bordered another civ's territory. I had massive cultural influence and lots of happy citizens, but I was the weakest in terms of military strength.

I made it all the way into the modern era before an AI civ declared war on me. The AI did have a few small wars with each other, but nothing major, each only lasted a few turns, and from what I could tell all they did was cross the other's border and destroy a few tile improvements. They would try to get me to help, and I would refuse, which is probably the reason I was eventually attacked.

As soon as the AI declared war on me, I switched all cities to producing military units. I was somewhat impressed by the AI's tactics, he had his military units staged outside of my borders in the "fog," and he declared war on me and marched his army across my border and took out three cities in one turn. The AI was able to take over about of my territory before I built up a strong enough military to defend what I had left. As soon as I won a couple of battles, he came begging for peace.

I remember the AI being a lot more aggressive in Civ III, especially with other AI civs. I remember one game where I was on a continent with two civ's on each side of me. They declared to war with each other. I stayed neutral, but did not have open borders with either one. If you never played Civ III, in Civ III you could cross the borders without declaring war, but you could contact them and tell them to leave and they had one turn to leave before their units were booted back to their territory. My territory completely separated them, so they either had to go through me or transport around me in the water. This was still fairly early in the game right around the start of the medieval period, so ships were still primitive. I kept forcing their units out of my territory, until they started offering me things for open borders. I ended up giving open borders to the highest offer. It was fun watching that war while. Later on after they settled their differences, the civ that I refused to let through my territory later declared war on me. That was actually the largest civ on the continent, but I was able to defend myself, and after a while he gave up. The other continent had 4 civs on it, and they were constantly having battles, even wiping one civ out.

I've been having an itch to play some Civ again, and I was wondering if BTS was any improvement or is it the same as Warlords with new civs and units?

 

[henyo10]

yes it improved i think (even thought i havent played warlords nor civ3). I once had a match where im on an continent with 6 civs and it always turned into a 3 way war with each other including me on one side while the other continent had 2 sides always fighting each other and one time they even sent an amphib attack on my continent against another civ. Maybe what you're doing wrong is not making the other civ hate the other civ because once they hate each otehr this would last almost the entire game. You can also tell if the civs at war are actually doing damage to one another is if you see a Great General being born in their lands.

 

[Willem]

I played on noble difficulty so that we all played by the same rules. I only had one defensive unit in each city that bordered another civ. I made it to the gunpowder era before I was attacked.

You certainly won't be able to do that in BtS. The AI will pounce on you very early if you allow yourself to become too weak. And it does engage in wars with other civs more than it used to. There's been a substantial change in the AI from Warlords to BtS, thanks to Blake. It's much smarter and much more capable. And much more willing to take advantage of someone who's in a weak position.

 

[JimTheGreat]

Thanks, I guess I'll pick it up then. It's only $20 now anyway.

 

[Willem]

Thanks, I guess I'll pick it up then. It's only $20 now anyway.

Definitely worth it. You might even find yourself having to go down a level in order to beat the game. Alot of people have. The AI is still not as good as a human would be but it has been improved quite a bit since Warlords. Oh, and watch out for the AI pulling off a cultural vistory, it's gotten fairly good at doing that now.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Another thing that the A.I. can do is launch an amphibious assault,and privateers are back- so you need a navy .

 

[Willem]

Another thing that the A.I. can do is launch an amphibious assault,and privateers are back- so you need a navy .

Except the AI hasn't quite figured out how to use Privateers. I very rarely see any of them in the game, aside from my own.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Except the AI hasn't quite figured out how to use Privateers. I very rarely see any of them in the game, aside from my own.

You're right. They are scarce. I get them in my games from the modpack...

But the A.I. can spam airships!

 

[Iranon]

Warfare remains one of the hardest things for the AI; most solutions aren't entirely satisfying.

Take the response to squatting in an AI civ's terrain without doing much: We went from 'senseless and suicidal assaults' to 'send every worker home and build a dozen archers'.
The AI also sucks at dealing with Privateers. Building a half-dozen caravels to sacrifice one-by-one isn't a solution.

 

[pxpdoo]

I will say, however, that when the AI declares on me, it is (almost) always a surprise. I can goad, cajole, P.O., and otherwise encourage a neighbor to attack, but they won't; then, out of the clear blue sky, I might get blindsided by a "Cautious" Civ...

 

[Supr49er]

You're right. They are scarce. I get them in my games from the modpack...

But the A.I. can spam airships!

Yes they do. They injure your ships, but luckily can't kill them.

AI Privateers are a rarity in my games also.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Yes they do. They injure your ships, but luckily can't kill them.

It's when they send out a fleet of caravels to get my privateers after the airstrikes (instead of one at a time as soon as they are completed )that they get results...


Or else when your friend comes along with a couple of frigates and spoils your peacetime blockade of the mutual traditional enemy...

 

[Supr49er]

It's when they send out a fleet of caravels to get my privateers after the airstrikes (instead of one at a time as soon as they are completed )that they get results...


Or else when your friend comes along with a couple of frigates and spoils your peacetime blockade of the mutual traditional enemy...

That does seem to be how I lose my Privateers most of the time.

 

[Willem]

Yeah, once Frigates start showing up you can pretty much kiss your Privateers goodbye. They really have a very short timespan of usefulness, which is why I usually don't build alot of them.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

BtS AI will pound you in the ass if you drop the soap.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah, once Frigates start showing up you can pretty much kiss your Privateers goodbye. They really have a very short timespan of usefulness, which is why I usually don't build alot of them.

It depends. If you get your hands on them before a mostly coastal civ gets near chemistry, you can hold that blockade for a long, long time, getting $$$ and xp in the process. The AI will seriously farm over cottages if it's losing too much pop hahahahaha. They can say goodbye to teching that way. Sure, they'll break it with frigates eventually, right about when your ships of the line with infantry in galleons or destroyers come knocking.

Ship of the line is really easy to get and bombards well. They're slow though so send them in advance.

 

[AngryZealot]

I've been very impressed with the AI. Sure it's not as good as a human, and I clobber it every time on Noble. Even still, it's quite incredible for a computer game. It can pull off attacks pretty effectively if you aren't paying attention. I still remember the days of Civ 2 when I'd just put two defenders in every city and never have to worry . It's easy to nitpick about details, but the BtS AI is very very good considering the complicated nature of Civ.

 

[DMOC]

The AI in Beyond the Sword has been GREATLY improved from previous versions. It WILL be aggressive and build up more units. I've had my first few BtS rushes terminated because of this reason.

Also, the AI goes for cultural and domination victories as well. I have seen both happen (with AI's winning!)

 

[spur390]

Firaxis has a lot more confidence in the BTS AI than the other AIs. Look at the chart on AI cheating.
http://www.kynosarges.de/Civilization.html

There are still flaws, however. The AI sends a steady stream of units-easy to poach them for example if you're sieging a city and they are sending defenders. If their cannon or whatever stops near the city and near your SOD its easy pickings for your cavalry. It does not take into account nearby threats and time the travelling so that it walks from a safe zone to where it is needed in the same turn.

Also there are units that seem to forget their orders and just stand there. Not pillaging not nothing. Maybe it has a city attack script but doesn't like the odds, so it just twiddles its thumbs. If this is in your territory they should be burning upkeep gold but I suppose the AI gets massive bonuses.

The AI does island invasions very well... usually. The problem with this is that they should move their usually sizeable fleet 1 square out of the city or evacuate the ships when it is endangered. It is possible to destroy 100% of their navy if you take the city that their navy is moored in.

The AI is not smart about considering distance when fighting. It fights for and keeps cities across the continent which would be useless, as the city has only its own tile and in the event of a peace treaty without open borders the army cannot leave.

 

[JimTheGreat]

So far the AI doesn't seem any better than what I've seen with the original Civ IV and Warlords. I usually play a custom game, noble difficulty, epic speed, on a small or tiny map with 6-8 civs. Sometimes cramming so many civs on a smaller map causes fighting over territory and resources early on, but not always.

I'm 250 tuns into the game, and there has not been any aggression between the AI civs. I started on a continent with another civ and we're getting along. The other 3 civs are crammed onto a second continent, but there has not been any fighting between them. I'm playing on warlord difficulty so I can have an advantage over the AI. I just wanted to watch and see how the AI interact between themselves, since my main complaint about Civ IV and Warlords was the AI never fight each other unless I make it happen, and so far BTS hasn't been any better.