How many UHV strategies are significantly changed in 1.17？

[Matara]

1.17 added new rise-fall mechanism and many other changes to the game that could significantly affect gameplay. However, most game guides in the forum are based on 1.16 or earlier version. So this thread is to collect the examples where UHV strategies are greatly changed (i.e. Byzantium no longer available to prevent Ottoman birth). If you have any ideas on these changes, please feel free to post in the threads.

 

[Dracosolon]

You can't get free troops from a civ refusing your flip anymore, which makes some UHV like America's (oh the irony) in a much more defavorable position to follow guides based on taking out European powers ASAP.

 

[Lzz]

Honestly America conquering Europe in the early 19th century is so ridiculous that even when it was possible I never would have tried doing it. The UHV is doable without it anyway, it's just trickier.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Spain: can’t raze Marseille before French flip. Italians always have to be dealt with. As a huge boon, however, Aztec and Inca can now be vassalized instead of conquered.

 

[Lzz]

Spain: can’t raze Marseille before French flip. Italians always have to be dealt with. As a huge boon, however, Aztec and Inca can now be vassalized instead of conquered.

To add: Spain starts with an army that can't even reliably take Barcelona now. UHV seems very difficult indeed.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

To add: Spain starts with an army that can't even reliably take Barcelona now. UHV seems very difficult indeed.

You're not wrong about that, and it the different start took some adjusting to. *Assuming* the player does take Barcelona with starting army, even with heavy losses overall big picture grand scheme yadda yadda the campaign is definitely easier than pure 1.16. You're compensated for not starting with the two Lancers almost immediately with the Advanced Start (I know AI gets it too but AI not as smart) but even that's a side show. Locking trebs behind Machinery seemed devastating at first, but it just became apparent after a few starts that you can't expect to blitz straight to Rome anymore. BUT - the classic bane of Spain (hehe you're welcome) - clawing and grasping to keep your economy afloat and research rate respectable because you had to trigger conquerors before finishing Optics - almost truly no longer exists. It's hard to understate how crucial this is until you've experienced the alternative and realize what massive opportunity cost the entire New World operation was. Now you can focus almost everything on dominating Europe and ensuring the Catholic victory: you can hit Firearms and Exploration so much earlier, you've been able to focus production on this OP army instead of the previous horde of settlers, workers, and missionaries. The conquerors are more expensive, sure, but now you only need them all long enough to force capitulation, maybe 5-6 turns tops. Then you bestow the fancy toys on your new subjects so they can pay for them and help you keep the precious metals safe. The Escorial gold now feels like a genuine bonus instead of the literal only thing allowing you to make any headway on research. These changes also have implications for the Catholic population goal. We no longer have to play the whacky spam missionaries to China game. You use the aforementioned OP army to subjugate and convert and help your flock expand . Portugal, England, and France pretty much mean Free Catholic Population abroad while you crusade with the Germans and Poles closer to home. Sacking cities as a theocracy almost guarantees the removal of heresy upon conquest, further augmenting your army as the divine instrument. I don't mean to convey this is as a new strategy but to stress how much more favored the changes have made it.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

@Lzz
BTW you've inspired me to craft the definitive guide thanks. Play/tune phase is already in well underway; stay tuned for publication.

 

[Lzz]

I am totally looking forward to it now

 

[WhiteEyes]

My Turkic guide form 2021 is now obsolete by the following reasons.

Chinese workers now working deeper in inner China instead of near Beijing, making them harder to capture. I have to wait for them to approach Beijing horse to catch them.
Korea are less likely to attack Simiyan Hoton.
Korea have Horse Archer instead of Chariot, making them harder to raid.
Simiyan Hoton now starts with 1 Archer and 2 Tibetan Swordsman. Luckily the Swordsman can be baited.
Indonesia is less willing to trade Medicine, perhaps it was luck based.
Arabs get conqueror army to attack Persia, no need for Crossbow baiting anymore. However Ghazis and Mobile Guards are just as troublesome.
No Crossbowmen in the Middle East is good news but Arabs also stacking Archers easier now.