bob bobato
L'imparfait
How old is cancer (the disease, not zodiac sign). Cause ive never heard of anyone dying of it before the twentieth century.
How old is cancer?
- Thread starter bob bobato
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Verbose
Deity
Napoleon died of cancer in 1821.
Charles XI, king of Sweden, died of it in 1697.
And heaps more beside.
Cancer itself predates humanity and is probably as old as complex organic life.
Charles XI, king of Sweden, died of it in 1697.
And heaps more beside.
Cancer itself predates humanity and is probably as old as complex organic life.
I think pretty much all animals can have cancer. So hundreds of millions of years old, at least. Does anyone know if any other eukaryotic organisms can have cancer?
Cancer was still widespread before the 20th century. However it's more prevalent these days because people live longer. It's very rare for young people to get cancer and far more common in older people.
Cancer was still widespread before the 20th century. However it's more prevalent these days because people live longer. It's very rare for young people to get cancer and far more common in older people.
Otkell
Chieftain
There's also the fact that medecine in the 19th century and before was pretty much a "guessing" science. And autopsy were illegal by the church at this time. So people just died back then. Old people died of old age, women died of some kind of shameful women problem, etc. Plus a lot of people died of the flu or scurvy or something like that so they didnt get the chance to live long enough to get cancer.
Hope this make sense.
I want to point out that english isnt my first langage, so what i wrote isnt necesserally what i meant but it is pretty close
Hope this make sense.
I want to point out that english isnt my first langage, so what i wrote isnt necesserally what i meant but it is pretty close
bob bobato
L'imparfait
I dont think so. Ive seen a list of every single ruler of england, and almost all of the reasons for their deaths were known. I know that doesn't mean that much, but chances are at least one of them would have died of cancer. Maybe cancer only got really widespread in the 20th century.
Hodad
Chieftain
Cancer's been around as long as there's been replicating cells. In other times, other stuff killed people before they could get cancer, that's all.
If you look at records, you will also realise that "tuberculosis" is a "new" disease... before that they simply died of "consumption".
If you look at records, you will also realise that "tuberculosis" is a "new" disease... before that they simply died of "consumption".
Cancer's been around as long as there's been replicating cells. In other times, other stuff killed people before they could get cancer, that's all.
If you look at records, you will also realise that "tuberculosis" is a "new" disease... before that they simply died of "consumption".
So what was the famed "gripping of the guts"?
Hodad
Chieftain
Well, my guess: "gripping of the guts" is something that happens a lot to patients with gallbladder and kidney stones... so my guess is that it was complications from gallbladder and/or kidney stones. Pancreatitis too, probably, and that's a lot more fulminant.
Edit: Also, potentially, bowel and intestinal obstructions and intestinal necrosis.
Stolen Rutters
Deity
All multicellular organisms can get cancer. I don't understand how it can be thought of as a 20th century invention.
http://www.cancerdecisions.com/speeches/galen1989.html
http://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title_pages/1192.html
http://www.chemheritage.org/EducationalServices/pharm/chemo/readings/ages.htm
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cancer/HO00033
http://www.cancerdecisions.com/speeches/galen1989.html
http://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title_pages/1192.html
http://www.chemheritage.org/EducationalServices/pharm/chemo/readings/ages.htm
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cancer/HO00033
bob bobato
L'imparfait
not invention. a lot diseases aren't new. Virtually every cold is completely origina; thats why people keep on getting them, for example. diseases keep on changing with the times, because of the conditions around them.
sydhe
King of Kongs
Hippocrates, Celsus and Galen all described cancers. Celsus used the very word.
Kraznaya
Princeps
Cancer is a disease caused by a malignant tumor; thus anything that can get a tumor, (any multicellular organism) can get cancer. The reason cancer isn't mentioned as common a source of death from earlier human history is because
a) medical mis diagnosis
b) people weren't living to be old enough to have enough mutations to cause a tumor.
a) medical mis diagnosis
b) people weren't living to be old enough to have enough mutations to cause a tumor.
Verbose
Deity
You wouldn't have the list so you can post it?
Maybe we could do a thread on historical causes of death for royalty?
Post-dating historical medical diagnosis is a very popular game with medical professionals. Historians of medicine tend to be very sceptical to the same thing because just about everything about how we define healthy and pathological, specific diseases and the agents of it, has totally changed in the last couple of hundred years. They simply aren't comparable anymore.
Of course cancer was known in antiquity. People just didn't know precisely what it was; probably an awful lot of deaths from cancer were simply ascribed to old age. The name "cancer" comes from the belief that cancers looked like crabs. Eeeoo!
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Just to put it into perspective: Humans and chimps split from their common ancestor around 5 million years ago.
The earliest animal fossils are from around 575 million years ago.
Eukaryotic cells came around 1600-2100 million years ago.
Cancer is found in plants too. Fungi are more closely related to animals than plants.
Presumably it's around 1 billion years old.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Actually, given that plants and animals (and fungi) achieved multicellularity independently, cancer will have arisen in them independently too. Since animals, AFAIK, are the oldest multicellular lineage, cancer will first have shown its tumorous face shortly after the first appearance of animals (metazoans), probably much less than 1 Gya, perhaps around 600 Mya.
(Hm. I suppose its a matter of definition if rogue cell lines in colonial protists can be termed cancers. If so, the origin would be pushed back by some unknown but probably large amount of time.)
The chance of a male having a prostate cancer is 100% if he lives long enough.
(I mean even if you have a very good health, you are gonna die from prostate cancer eventually. There is no way of escaping prostate cancer for men)
(I mean even if you have a very good health, you are gonna die from prostate cancer eventually. There is no way of escaping prostate cancer for men)
Shylock
Hey smiling strange
Empress Theodora I believe died of cancer.
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