How should we help the super rich?

[El_Machinae]

Not a difficulty, no. A fundamental roadblock.

Making water evaporate is a matter of generating heat. Transmuting water is something else entirely, and generally the realm of the fantastical. Yours is the latter here, which is why I was interested.

It's contradictory because your solution is contradicted by the state of the world and the rich people in it. It doesn't exist unless you break that first. Which means unless you can reconcile it, it isn't actually a solution.

Oh I see, you're asking me to reconcile my statement with something you believe, you're not asking me to square my position here with another position I've stated elsewhere.

It might be that you're using the word "democratically" differently than I am as well.

Does the problem that you are expressing require an undemocratic solution? How does that look?

 

[Gorbles]

Oh I see, you're asking me to reconcile my statement with something you believe

Oh, I see what you're doing here.

I tried, at least.

 

[Cutlass]

Clearly the super elites have a lot of issues. How should we help them so they can be better people & make better decisions?

High taxes.

 

[Hygro]

Oh, I see what you're doing here.

I tried, at least.

Well, you asserted that you think it's impossible. Our democratic institutions have created radically different expressions of class before, and can again. There was no magic transmutation in past examples.

 

[Gorbles]

Well, you asserted that you think it's impossible. Our democratic institutions have created radically different expressions of class before, and can again. There was no magic transmutation in past examples.

The assertion is unfortunately pretty irrelevant to the discussion dynamic. I was contributing to it, and now I'm not.

To elaborate on the answer a bit, a solution can be many things. My problem isn't that changing democractic norms may be difficult, or may face opposition, or differs country-by-country, or anything like that. I was attempting to lay out a very simple problem with capitalism as it stands currently, in reality. The Twitter thread is full of examples. Laws don't matter, democratic norms don't matter, nothing matters if you have enough money to walk past them.

 

[Hygro]

What examples in the Twitter thread are proof that laws can't affect rich people?

Musk bluffed that he would buy Twitter and then had to once Twitter's owners called him on it because it was the law.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Give them a copy of CIV so they can learn economy.

 

[amadeus]

I’m going to actually touch on the subject at hand and say: ???

Depression etc. can affect anyone and it looks like money doesn’t make it go away for most people. How to help? Maybe gawk at them less. In exchange, some of them should be less attention-seeking. My two cents’ worth of opinion.

 

[Hygro]

I think most are quite private.

 

[amadeus]

I think most are quite private.

Just as well. I don’t want them meddling and I wouldn’t meddle with them (exceeding the bounds of constitutional government).

 

[Birdjaguar]

If one looks back in time and at those very rich folks who left important legacies behind, one can see that most of those allocations of wealth were tied to their desire to leave a significant story for the future. None of these people were necessarily nice people nor did they leave exemplary lives. Often they were engaged in terrible behavior that often had horrid impacts on the general population. They also had a major impact on the nature of life and culture.

Various Ancient Age Kings and Emperors
The Borgia Family Arts
The Medici Family Arts

Best known Gilded Age Robber Barons

• John Jacob Astor (real estate, fur) – New York
• Andrew Carnegie (steel) – Pittsburgh and New York
• James Buchanan Duke (tobacco, electric power) – Durham, North Carolina
• John Warne Gates (barbed wire, oil) – Texas[27]
• Jay Gould (railroads) – New York[28]
• E. H. Harriman (railroads) – New York[29]
• William Randolph Hearst (media mogul) – California[30][31]
• Andrew Mellon (finance, oil) – Pittsburgh
• J. P. Morgan (finance, industrial consolidation) – New York
• John D. Rockefeller (Standard Oil) – Cleveland, Ohio
• Leland Stanford (railroads) – California
• Cornelius Vanderbilt (water transport, railroads) – New York

Patrons of the Arts

• Henry Clay Frick
• J. Paul Getty Art
• Eli Broad Art

Philanthropy is the modern term usually applied to how the modern rich could/should use their excess wealth. We should be appealing to their egos and legacy if we want to encourage them give most of it away.

Best Known Modern Billionaires

• Jeff Bezos
• Mackenzie Bezos
• Mark Zuckerberg
• Elon Musk
• Bill Gates
• Melinda Gates
• Warren Buffet
• Donald J Trump

 

[amadeus]

Railroads, railroads, steel, oil… barbed wire? That’s something I wouldn’t want to be tied up in. You’ve also gotta be pretty slick to make it in the oil game, and steel hardens even the softest man.

 

[El_Machinae]

I really got stuck on 'square'.

Well, you asserted that you think it's impossible. Our democratic institutions have created radically different expressions of class before, and can again. There was no magic transmutation in past examples.

An institution might not capture democratic will, so it might need to be changed first. Lots of people think that some institutions should be ruled by minorities, they just disagree on the ruling cohort given the power. So, some will agree to democratic reform with a long game in mind.

If the goal is to have democratic reallocation, you might need stepwise democratic recapture of underlying institutions.

This is going to be, hopefully, not competing with convincing some people to change their voluntary behaviors. Of course, one tack might plateau, requiring efforts in one stream to cause regression in another. Their voluntary generosity might delay democratic reform or vis versa. Meh, then it's just a calculation with an end goal in mind.

 

[Birdjaguar]

barbed wire?

The fencing of the west for cattle production. The western US is a big place that need many many miles of fencing and barbed wire was the perfect solution. It kept cattle in places there should be and out of places they shouldn't be.

 

[Gorbles]

What examples in the Twitter thread are proof that laws can't affect rich people?

Musk bluffed that he would buy Twitter and then had to once Twitter's owners called him on it because it was the law.

Labour laws, for starters.

Musk's bluff was only called on the purchase because money (of a significant sum) was at stake.

 

[amadeus]

The fencing of the west for cattle production. The western US is a big place that need many many miles of fencing and barbed wire was the perfect solution. It kept cattle in places there should be and out of places they shouldn't be.

I knew it was important to cattle ranching, but I wouldn’t think barbed wire would bring in that much money in and of itself.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Labour laws, for starters.

Musk's bluff was only called on the purchase because money (of a significant sum) was at stake.

And because those involved were also wealthy.
When the only people holding Musk to account are banks and financiers we have a problem.

 

[Lexicus]

Labour laws, for starters.

Musk's bluff was only called on the purchase because money (of a significant sum) was at stake.

Musk isn't immune to labor laws, it's just labor laws in this country are as impotent as a Nevada boxing commissioner.

 

[Gorbles]

Musk isn't immune to labor laws, it's just labor laws in this country are as impotent as a Nevada boxing commissioner.

And the roadblock to those improving, among other things, are the interests of capital. They're impotent by design, right?

 

[Hygro]

We didn't start with them, we fought for them. Then they fought back. It's not over.