How to be religiously tolerant?

[Sahkuhnder]

Maybe, but I think they tend to overreact.

I work the graveyard shift. When you get woke up from a deep REM sleep by a knock on the door by someone wanting to share their religion it's easy to snap at them.

It sounds like you just talk to people passing by, which is far better. But if you do have people overreact it may be because you are (unfairly) lumped together with similar spread-the-faith groups who do disturb people at home by knocking on their doors.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Actually, we do knock on doors. But we try not to be too loud - we usually don't ring the doorbell, just knock, not loudly enough to wake anyone up.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Actually, we do knock on doors. But we try not to be too loud - we usually don't ring the doorbell, just knock, not loudly enough to wake anyone up.

Well...if you get snapped at and treated rudely then in my opinion it's your own fault. A person's home is where they go when they don't want to be disturbed. I try to be polite to people who pass out literature on the street, but if you come to my home uninvited you have trespassed.

Seriously, when we purchased our home we specifically only looked at houses in gated subdivisions (which are very common here in Vegas unlike other cities). A good part of the reason was that a locked gate keeps the salesmen and religious from coming around and disrupting my family time or my sleep.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well...if you get snapped at and treated rudely then in my opinion it's your own fault. A person's home is where they go when they don't want to be disturbed. I try to be polite to people who pass out literature on the street, but if you come to my home uninvited you have trespassed.

Seriously, when we purchased our home we specifically only looked at houses in gated subdivisions (which are very common here in Vegas unlike other cities). A good part of the reason was that a locked gate keeps the salesmen and religious from coming around and disrupting my family time or my sleep.

Well, although I didn't like it when people snapped - I really do think that they were being far ruder than we ever were - I learned early on that it is part of the game, and sometimes I almost found it amusing when someone launched into a torrent of profanity because we dared try to talk to them (and it wasn't even always knocking doors; we would sometimes talk to people who were outside on their porches or lawns).

And for what it's worth, the Supreme Court ruled that religious groups have to be allowed to knock doors in gated communities. However, the policy my church has is that if we were asked to leave an artment building or complex, we would, even though we didn't have to.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Well, although I didn't like it when people snapped - I really do think that they were being far ruder than we ever were - I learned early on that it is part of the game, and sometimes I almost found it amusing when someone launched into a torrent of profanity because we dared try to talk to them (and it wasn't even always knocking doors; we would sometimes talk to people who were outside on their porches or lawns).

And for what it's worth, the Supreme Court ruled that religious groups have to be allowed to knock doors in gated communities. However, the policy my church has is that if we were asked to leave an artment building or complex, we would, even though we didn't have to.

I don't doubt from a purely legal point of view you are correct. When I said trespass I meant trespass upon my privacy, which is something I highly value and take very seriously. Religious tolerance IMHO should include tolerance for people who want to be left alone, in this case as signified by being at home with the door closed.

If the goal of your efforts is to initiate a meaningful dialog with others, may I suggest that disturbing people at home may not be the best way to start off on good terms.

Catch me next time I'm at the DMV getting my license or registration renewed. I always seem to have a few hours to spare while waiting and may jump at the chance to not be bored and have someone to talk to.

 

[punkbass2000]

And you can't let "you know some people won't like it" be a reason not to do something if you think it's right.

Why not? Particularly when the ones that don't like it are the ones that you're affecting most directly. You said yourself most people didn't want to listen to you.

 

[punkbass2000]

It sounds like you just talk to people passing by, which is far better.

That happened to me today, actually. I found it more annoying, personally. At least when they're at the door you can simply not answer it. Not that it was big deal, or anything, very noce and friendly, though a bit overbearing. Again, not a big deal, but given the choice I would prefer it not to happen.

 

[El_Machinae]

Why not? Particularly when the ones that don't like it are the ones that you're affecting most directly. You said yourself most people didn't want to listen to you.

Because some people (and you don't know who ahead of time) don't mind? I'm just theorizing, though.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yeah, that's pretty true. About 80% of the people we talk to don't want to listen, but don't mind talking to us. About 15% do want to talk to us (if only to argue), and about 5% get really upset. And there is no real correlation between whether their door is closed and whether they will talk to us, either.

 

[punkbass2000]

Because some people (and you don't know who ahead of time) don't mind? I'm just theorizing, though.

But it is a safe assumption that a fair number will not like it. Given EoA's numbers, 1 in 20 get very upset by it. Far from a majority, but enough that I would feel pretty bad to continue doing it. If I was doing something that really bothered people directly and avoidably 5% of the time I would stop doing it. Then again, I suppose it would be easier of I just blamed them for feeling that way.

Beyond that, as I mentioned before, this doesn't sound like an effective way to "convert" people.

 

[Mirc]

I can be religiously tolerant very easy as long as the others don't insult my religion (like the thread Is God an atheist). It's not that hard to be.

 

[downtown]

Beyond that, as I mentioned before, this doesn't sound like an effective way to "convert" people.

Since Eran's church is one of the fastest growing in the world, I'd say its decently effective

 

[Mirc]

Yes, it seems to be.

 

[punkbass2000]

Since Eran's church is one of the fastest growing in the world, I'd say its decently effective

I don't believe in that system of measurement

 

[El_Machinae]

You also have to look at the quality of person they're recruiting.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

You also have to look at the quality of person they're recruiting.

What's that supposed to mean? Anyways, what MattBrown is saying is that knocking on doors is effective as it leads to people joining our church, despite what some people here seem to think about it being completely worthles. We have been in the proselyting business for a while, so we know what works.

And having known many converts to the church, I must say that they are all 'quality' people, and most of them are of the opinion that joining was a good decision that improved their lives.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

...We have been in the proselyting business for a while, so we know what works.

Could some of the hostility you may view as religious persecution not be against your beliefs at all, but be because you violated someones privacy and they hate you for your methods, not your message.

Is the new convert you make worth the disruption and hostility you generate?

Is this the best way to promote religious tolerance?

Just something to consider.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Could some of the hostility you may view as religious persecution not be against your beliefs at all, but be because you violated someones privacy and they hate you for your methods, not your message.

Is the new convert you make worth the disruption and hostility you generate?

Is this the best way to promote religious tolerance?

Just something to consider.

The hostility and violence that we got (during the 1830s and 1840s) had nothing to do with proselyting; in that era, it was considered perfectly normal for a religion to evangelize.

And the hostility that is generated as a result of our activities does not come from us but from people who choose to get angry when we talk to them. I hardly think that it is our fault if someone decides to yell at us and slam a door in our face. Those who do that are generally not the sort to join our church anyways.

 

[willemvanoranje]

I think it was Aristoteles who said that it's all about "minding your own business"... being tolerant basically means minding your own business.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I think it was Aristoteles who said that it's all about "minding your own business"... being tolerant basically means minding your own business.

How does that figure? I can talk to people about my religion without being intolerant of theirs.