How to end govt corruption?

I mean, that's definitely not a word I used, so at this point I'm just going to assume that you want to argue with folks. Have fun then.

Didn't claim you used it.

I'm just a fascist holocaust revisionist though so what do I know?
Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. The_J

Smugface.
 
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You may be asking, what's the solution? Simple: disempower the private profit interest.
This goes just for giant companies like banks, agribusiness, pharmaceuticals, etc?

Or all small private businesses?

And assuming such large businesses are taken over by government how do you keep them from getting corrupted? Presumably government businesses are monopolys which seems to increase the probability of corruption not lowing it (as w the electric situation in South Africa)
 
So, might this perhaps be one of those questions that can be turned around so it's rather "How to achieve good governance?", rather than "How to end government corruption?" Good governance typically does not include corruption.

The question seems to imply government itself is a generator of corruption. But is that a question of bad government, or is all government bad by definition here?

But that then begs the question how there seems to be some good reasonably government going on in parts of the world anyway?
 
This version by the North Korean Military is also pretty good. :)
I especially love that they show footage of their long range missile program and of a nuclear explosion on the screen on the background.
You simply have to love the drama and show the North Korean totalitarian regime sometimes achieves to stage ...
 
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This goes just for giant companies like banks, agribusiness, pharmaceuticals, etc?

Or all small private businesses?

And assuming such large businesses are taken over by government how do you keep them from getting corrupted? Presumably government businesses are monopolys which seems to increase the probability of corruption not lowing it (as w the electric situation in South Africa)
I'd imagine the fundamental difference (regardless of the challenges in the real world) is that one group is voted in, and the other isn't. You're asking how we avoid corruption right now, in the public sector?

Like, it doesn't always work out, but "vote them out" is something we can do in a democratic political system. You can't do that to private industry, and as such, there aren't the same checks and balances on corruption.

This isn't to say government-run business can't become corrupt, it's just that by default it's an improvement due to answering theoretically to their voters, in democratic systems that aren't utterly effed up - unlike the States.
 
You can't do that to private industry, and as such, there aren't the same checks and balances on corruption
So the solution would be to abandon capitalism and become communist?
If you believe that communist systems are not corrupt then you really know nothing about communism at all.
If you do not believe me, ask people that actually lived in communist societies ... as e.g. my parents and grandparents did.
 
I'd imagine the fundamental difference (regardless of the challenges in the real world) is that one group is voted in, and the other isn't. You're asking how we avoid corruption right now, in the public sector?

Like, it doesn't always work out, but "vote them out" is something we can do in a democratic political system. You can't do that to private industry, and as such, there aren't the same checks and balances on corruption.

This isn't to say government-run business can't become corrupt, it's just that by default it's an improvement due to answering theoretically to their voters, in democratic systems that aren't utterly effed up - unlike the States.

I woukd argue its kinda cultural. How much do you trust your fellow citizens.

Most recent example immigrant got arrested and deported for trying to bribe a cop. Don't do that
 
So the solution would be to abandon capitalism and become communist?
If you believe that communist systems are not corrupt than you really know nothing about communism at all.
If you do not believe me, ask people that actually lived in communist societies ... as e.g. my parents and grandparents did.

Not what he said nepotism is maybe more rampant in private sector. Unless they're blatantly breaking the law you've got things like insider trading
 
So the solution would be to abandon capitalism and become communist?
I didn't mention communism at all. Please take your own advice from the other thread, and commit to discussions that people have actually made.
 
Not what he said nepotism is maybe more rampant in private sector.
Seriously, the most corrupt enterprises in the world are the ones where governments mess with.
Look e.g. at Gazprom in Russia ... all the stuff that happend in banking sector ... the wirecard scandal ... the scandals related to covid masks in Europe ... the scandals related to shady weapon deals with Saudi Arabia ... look at the construction industry in China ... look at the energy industry in South Africa ...

Whenever political interests are involved there is shady business going on.
Especially once those are international interest ... or party based.

The biggest interantional corruption incidents in the world all had political invovlment.
As they could not have happened if the governments would have taken its responsibilities seriously.
 
I didn't mention communism at all.
I have not said that you did - I was making a counter argument

You kind of seemed to suggest that private industry is less corrupt that governments.
And my argument against it was basically to look at what happened in communism.

Taking away private owned companies to turn them into government owned property is one of the aspects that define communism.
And it has never ever worked ... alwas just made the companies less competitive, more bureaucratic and more corrupt.
 
I have not said that you did - I was making a counter argument

You kind of seemed to suggest that private industry is less corrupt that governments.
And my argument against it was basically to look at what happened in communism.
How is that an argument? What does it respond to?

It's like you saying "I prefer private industry" and me asking you if you'd like to live in a hot air balloon, because it'd be hard to visit company offices from a hot air balloon. It's a red herring; it's nonsensical, and it wasn't what I was arguing.
 
... and it wasn't what I was arguing.
Agreed, but it was my argument against "private comapnies are more corrupt than government owned companies".
 
Seriously, the most corrupt enterprises in the world are the ones where governments mess with.
Look e.g. at Gazprom in Russia ... all the stuff that happend in banking sector ... the wirecard scandal ... the scandals related to covid masks in Europe ... the scandals related to shady weapon deals with Saudi Arabia ... look at the construction industry in China ... look at the energy industry in South Africa ...

Whenever political interests are involved there is shady business going on.
Especially once those are international interest ... or party based.

The biggest interantional corruption incidents in the world all had political invovlment.
As they could not have happened if the governments would have taken its responsibilities seriously.

Russia is one of the more corrupt countries in the world though


Corruptions everywhere. It's how blatant it is. In NZ almost unheard of a dodgy cop isn't taking bribes from the general public on the street but might from people he knows.

USA you know it's there in the background somewhere but can't be to blatant about it.

Russia the government officials somehow have western luxury cars.

More corrupt countries the government officials will sell you what you want in public from the boot of a western car parked in their carport at the government office.
 
Exactly ... and it will not be solved by turning private companies into government controled companies.

Also depends on what you mean by government corruption.

Dodgy back room deals, blatantly bribing a parliamentarian, bribing government officials?

Here it's not blatant corruption more nepotism or conflicts of interest. Eg leader of political party want to promote pro landlord policies. Owns 7 investment properties. Ex parliamentarian gets cushy board position, ex prime minister sells his property for 20 million. Political journalist married to higher up political party member things like that.
 
Agreed, but it was my argument against "private comapnies are more corrupt than government owned companies".
You do realise we already have the public sector in capitalist countries? Or are you just being obtuse to try and drag another thread into "commmunism lol"?
 
You do realise we already have the public sector in capitalist countries?
Of course I do. But I also know how often turning a private company into a public owned one has failed miserably.
As you e.g. remove then competition to a huge degree which is the main driving force for companies to improve their products and services and stay efficient.

E.g. take the German Deutsche Bahn and its private competition that is now allowed since a couple of years ... as Germany now has both private and public rail.
The Deutsche Bahn (still partially public) is know for its bad management and just surviving on tax subvention while the public rail competition is able to generate profits on its own with better service.

Or take the deutsche Telekom as another example that was once a public company (as phone system was owned by the government in Germany and then privatized.
It turned a huge bureaucratic and badly functioning company into a better working private one that was generating profits and also opened the market for competition which overall made German phone and internet better.

Competition is actually most of the time a very good thing for the people that consume the products and services ...
 
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But I also know how often turning a private company into a public owned one has often failed miserably.
And I know privatising a formerly-nationalised company has often failed miserably too.

Anecdotes are anecdotes. You simply don't believe nationalisation is a good thing. You said as much to Zardnaar, earlier. Stick with that. I disagree with it of course, but it's far more honest than trying to gotcha me about "communism" or something else.

This seems like a fun read on the trouble Deutsche Bahn is suffering from. It doesn't shy away from praising it where praise is due, as I'd expect a balanced piece to do. Forgive me, but given that your position is "nationalisation bad", of course you're going to try and paint nationalised institutions as bad. Reality is probably a tad more complex than that :)

(and of course, "generate profits" should not be the measure of a successful service)
 
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