bryanw1995
Emperor
landsnatch is of more use to the ai imho b/c they don't get the unit penalties that humans do. I always early rush germany if I see them b/c if they get to landsnatch they're an absolute pita.
How would you rate Germany?
- Thread starter EverNoob
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Ahriman
Tyrant
The problems with Germany aren't about strength vs weakness. Its that they're forced into a rush-oriented playstyle that isn't really fun (partly cos the AI can't handle it) and because the Tank unit is broken compared to Mech-inf due to poor tech tree design.
I think online Germany is a beast civ. There land bias is great for growing and teching. You can get civil service early with great library or stone henge for big culture for honor. Get money and units from barbs and constantly tech and upgrade units. I really like their unique pike because it makes a great library rush really viable. The pike production is the same as spear. You can also go for 2 wonders at start if it makes sense. Stone than GL. Ive done it before and it works. Since you can get units from barbs early protection is not hard to get.
On single player not sure.
On single player not sure.
their UA gets stronger on longer game speeds, played as them on epic and the ua was great, I got a lot of units from that, which meant that I could clear more camps to get more units to kill everyone.
landschnect is ok, really good if you lack iron. and the extra mp for the panzer makes it a lot better for using as a hit and run unit, you can quickly decimate anything in open terrain
landschnect is ok, really good if you lack iron. and the extra mp for the panzer makes it a lot better for using as a hit and run unit, you can quickly decimate anything in open terrain
avl8
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2010
- Messages
- 364
Actually with all that cheap to produce and rushbuy LKs you can do a nice slingshot start for a peaceful/teching strat or ICS. And still got some emergency buttons/extra troops from barbarian settlements.
And on emperor and above you really appreciate those buttons!
Cant say Germany only meant to war
RohirrimElf
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,263
Germany is just overpowered early game on marathon settings. (I only play single player) I can take out my neighbor civ and 3-4 city states pretty fast. Thanx to the free units from barb cambs and buying 2 archers. All before i see any swordsman or horseman pop up.
rtfischbeck
Chieftain
I think Germany is pretty average...probably Tier 3ish. I actually think they're much better on King/Emperor, where you can slingshot CS and still get rifles early. Unfortunately, this is much harder on immortal/deity, where you're better off using the UA to warrior rush.
Imo, the Germans are focused wrongly, they should be aimed at the Medieval through Industrial eras.
As a guess, the trait is probably an attempt to emulate Germania, the barbarian society that essentially kept the Roman legions at bay. I think it should be traded for a more modern trait. Perhaps something to represent realpolitik, maybe a boost to production?
Landsknecht, albeit mainly german, aren't really representative of of what I think of German history. How about a Teutonic Knight that replaces either the knight or longswordsman and has a strength bonus?
Then perhaps a UB, perhaps 'Assembly Line', that replaces the factory. An extra production boost in addition to their trait would probably be overpowered, so perhaps a gold boost?
As a guess, the trait is probably an attempt to emulate Germania, the barbarian society that essentially kept the Roman legions at bay. I think it should be traded for a more modern trait. Perhaps something to represent realpolitik, maybe a boost to production?
Landsknecht, albeit mainly german, aren't really representative of of what I think of German history. How about a Teutonic Knight that replaces either the knight or longswordsman and has a strength bonus?
Then perhaps a UB, perhaps 'Assembly Line', that replaces the factory. An extra production boost in addition to their trait would probably be overpowered, so perhaps a gold boost?
He-Who-Hunts
2nd Legionary Cohort
I think Germany should have an added Mobilization option in the industrial age similar to Civ 3's, where during war your cities (but not puppets) get a huge boost in production but can only build military units and you cant go back to normal until peace is declared.
As it stands now the German UA wanes during medieval and falls flat at Ren, they need something for late game.
However... Before we go talkin bout the Germaniacs there is a serious UA problem to be mended with Suli and co.
As it stands now the German UA wanes during medieval and falls flat at Ren, they need something for late game.
However... Before we go talkin bout the Germaniacs there is a serious UA problem to be mended with Suli and co.
My problem isn't their overall power. My problem more lies in that on some settings they are amazing, on some map settings they suck, and (a bit like Spain) their UA is much more volatile. I've gone games where I've seen 1-2 barbarian camps, that's it. How fun is it when you realize that you won't even get the chance to use your UA over the course of the game?
UAs should be strategy dependent, not map dependent. There's too many random variables in the latter.
UAs should be strategy dependent, not map dependent. There's too many random variables in the latter.
Airey
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2008
- Messages
- 509
You pretty much covered all the bases with them. Except I wouldn't rush with LKs, even though they are cheaper than Archers, and usually rush will be fine if player is ok with suicidal units (which should be Japanese units). Cost are prob lower than a settler built.
LK compliments better with early expansionist strategist and like you already pointed out, early defensive war.
Early game, low hammer count = cities can start producing buildings at earlier date. Mass upgrade @ Rifle would prob result in more efficient war.
Panzers, late game UU usually doesn't matter anymore since game is mostly decided by then.
so true, weak UA should be paired with stronger UU or UB, rather than having Greeks/China/Siam, pretty much all around.
but with no resource requirement, Pikes/LKs are actually more strategy dependent than other civs.
+1, good idea
Bibor
Doomsday Machine
Landsknecht's problem is that its already based on a ******** unit. If it would be 
14 instead of 10, with the standard pikeman 
cost -- now that would be something interesting. As it is now, it cannot perform siege against any half-decent early medieval city (archer, walls) and its minute production cost is negligible compared to the fact that I don't want my cities to produce Landsknechts all the time just because they are dying all the time.
The only scenario I'd consider using the LK is if I had only 2 iron and I had to attack someone. A few prayers to Odin might even make them survive more than 2 attacks.
The Panzer suffers from the same problem - ******** base unit. Nobody in their right mind prioritizes Combustion, except perhaps in a scenario where your survival depends on nukes. In the early industrial age when wars are dominated by infantry and artillery, tanks try to find their spot on the hex grid, usually without luck. Still, the biggest problem of Panzers is Oligarchy. That policy needs to be nerfed to the ground. What good are mobile units if all they are going to hit is a brickwall?
The unique ability is... well... I don't know. It sucks on King, Emperor, normal & small map sizes. Maybe it owns on a huge marathon map. But I never play those.
14 instead of 10, with the standard pikeman cost -- now that would be something interesting. As it is now, it cannot perform siege against any half-decent early medieval city (archer, walls) and its minute production cost is negligible compared to the fact that I don't want my cities to produce Landsknechts all the time just because they are dying all the time.The only scenario I'd consider using the LK is if I had only 2 iron and I had to attack someone. A few prayers to Odin might even make them survive more than 2 attacks.
The Panzer suffers from the same problem - ******** base unit. Nobody in their right mind prioritizes Combustion, except perhaps in a scenario where your survival depends on nukes. In the early industrial age when wars are dominated by infantry and artillery, tanks try to find their spot on the hex grid, usually without luck. Still, the biggest problem of Panzers is Oligarchy. That policy needs to be nerfed to the ground. What good are mobile units if all they are going to hit is a brickwall?
The unique ability is... well... I don't know. It sucks on King, Emperor, normal & small map sizes. Maybe it owns on a huge marathon map. But I never play those.
Civsassin
Immortal
The Landsknecht is great if you wind up ironless. Because of the cost to produce them, it is definitely good for a rush. Purchase as many as possible, and be prepared to upgrade them to rifles en masse. With enough of them and a few catapults, you can have an effective early rush while other civs are still trying to find their footing even at higher levels. The German tank is OK, but I don't produce too many of them. I prefer to keep them for defence, especially to chase down and destroy those annoying artillery, which can tear you apart in their time.
The German UT is OK. I've had mixed results with it. It is certainly an early game trait, so it loses its luster as the lands get gobbled up. Overall, I think Germany is a decent civ.
Frankly, I think they all are decent in their own way. A handful of civs have dominant UU, UB, and UT. For example: China, Siam, Songhai, Greece, and a couple of others are powerful and remain that way throughout the game.
The German UT is OK. I've had mixed results with it. It is certainly an early game trait, so it loses its luster as the lands get gobbled up. Overall, I think Germany is a decent civ.
Frankly, I think they all are decent in their own way. A handful of civs have dominant UU, UB, and UT. For example: China, Siam, Songhai, Greece, and a couple of others are powerful and remain that way throughout the game.
Supr49er
2011 Thunderfall Cup
The cheap Landsknechts are helpful, but the Panzers usually come too late for me.
The UA can be aggravating because I don't seem to get as many units as I should.
The UA can be aggravating because I don't seem to get as many units as I should.
jomateix
Chieftain
The big problem with Germany is that I've never seen it, when playin the AI, becoming a superpower but just a middlepower. That's quite wrong.
Rooftrellen
King
I think they went the wrong direction with Germany.
They tried to acknowledge the history of the area, not the history of the young country. Imagine America having a UB to replace the Minuteman UU to replace the monument "totem pole" and a UA "Fertile Colony" which gave all food bonuses from resources to the capital.
The result would be a civ that looks back to a time before a country in that area was even thought about, to a time before it was a country but unified under another world power, and to a time that we think about with the country.
Germany does this, trying to use the land throughout time but not using the civilization they set out to use. You might as well use a Celtic Warrior for a Spanish UU.
That seems to lead the civ having quite a confused feel. Should I concentrate on tech early to get my UUs earlier? If so, what about my UA? Useless, or nearly so.
Maybe I should use my UA, then? But that will mean early wars for full effect, and less effort will be put toward growth and tech.
The UUs don't work at all with each other, or the UA.
For a comparison, look at France or Rome, both of which I feel are quite strong due to their abilities and units.
Rome has some great early units to conquer a lot of land, and that fast expansion can be assimilated into the empire quite quickly since extra hammers will come from having buildings already built in Rome. Besides being great for historical accuracy, it all works together to make a great civ.
France can get a lot of culture, and, therefore policies and power, up until Steam Power is discovered, but the Musketeer (or upgraded to Riflemen) or the foreign legion a bit later, can allow for rapid expansion right around that time period, given the correct policies for warring and building in the newly acquired lands. It fits together very well.
Each individual part that makes Germany isn't really bad, it just fits together poorly. It is a confused civ that just needs a way to tie everything together.
They tried to acknowledge the history of the area, not the history of the young country. Imagine America having a UB to replace the Minuteman UU to replace the monument "totem pole" and a UA "Fertile Colony" which gave all food bonuses from resources to the capital.
The result would be a civ that looks back to a time before a country in that area was even thought about, to a time before it was a country but unified under another world power, and to a time that we think about with the country.
Germany does this, trying to use the land throughout time but not using the civilization they set out to use. You might as well use a Celtic Warrior for a Spanish UU.
That seems to lead the civ having quite a confused feel. Should I concentrate on tech early to get my UUs earlier? If so, what about my UA? Useless, or nearly so.
Maybe I should use my UA, then? But that will mean early wars for full effect, and less effort will be put toward growth and tech.
The UUs don't work at all with each other, or the UA.
For a comparison, look at France or Rome, both of which I feel are quite strong due to their abilities and units.
Rome has some great early units to conquer a lot of land, and that fast expansion can be assimilated into the empire quite quickly since extra hammers will come from having buildings already built in Rome. Besides being great for historical accuracy, it all works together to make a great civ.
France can get a lot of culture, and, therefore policies and power, up until Steam Power is discovered, but the Musketeer (or upgraded to Riflemen) or the foreign legion a bit later, can allow for rapid expansion right around that time period, given the correct policies for warring and building in the newly acquired lands. It fits together very well.
Each individual part that makes Germany isn't really bad, it just fits together poorly. It is a confused civ that just needs a way to tie everything together.
I think it would be lots of fun to play as Germany with raging barbarians set, and Pangea. The rules for Barb spawning are a bit different in Civ V over previous versions. I've seen them spawn within eye sight. Not sure what the spawn rules are now exactly, except that unhappiness less than 20 allows them to spawn within your cultural borders.
I dont ussually play as germany on single players but me and my friends play multi and we always go random civ. twice ive gotten them both times i went Pottery,Writing Started building Great Library continued researching Animal Husbandry, Trapping and philosophy than tried to time it so they both finished same turn. Using the Great Library to get Civil Service for free. If you get Great Library and are able to use it for Civil Service than they seem to be absolutely OP as noone should be even close to anything comparable. Even if someone does manage to get swordsman soon after or even before you will have an almost = unit vs them and monstorous against all else at half the cost. Seriously no one should stand in your way. Otherwisse not my first choice.
