HUMANKIND a Civ VI killer?

[Kwami]

My little reminder that Amplitude did Districts first in Endless Legend and then Civ 6 had them, albeit pretty different. Cant say for sure EL influenced Civ 6 but the game did get a lot of awards and coverage so not suprising if Firaxis had seen it/played it.

I mean, EL kind of did districts. But it was just one kind of district and the strategy in every city was pretty much the same. It's not quite what Firaxis did in Civ VI. Still, I guess EL might have been inspiration.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

The idea in EL was to have your city in itself to extend, not only the territory your city control. Which makes sense. But I prefer how they do it in EL rather than CivVI because it appears more organic IMO.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Btw, this expectation that Humankind will replace Civ and deliver what Civ VI couldn't will end up hurting Humankind, because there are a lot of people with unrealistic expectations about what this game will be, that just can't be matched by the real thing. The hype train has a tendency to crash at disappointment station, and Humankind is building up to take that route, not because the game will be bad, but because it can't possibly reach the perfection that people are imagining by now.

Yes , I think this comparison really hurts Humankind. Comparing HK to Civ is like comparing EU to Civ they occupy a similar theme and use similar systems but the gameplay is NOT similar. If anyone walks into HK with the mindset of this Civ with some new systems they are going to be totally turned off. While not my cup of tea, I think they have done a great job on HK and I want it to get a fair shake, but that doesn't happen if you think this is somehow Civ VI.5.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Is Sonic the Hedgehog a Mario Bros killer?

 

[ehecatzin]

My little reminder that Amplitude did Districts first in Endless Legend and then Civ 6 had them, albeit pretty different. Cant say for sure EL influenced Civ 6 but the game did get a lot of awards and coverage so not suprising if Firaxis had seen it/played it.

this, and they also did tall districts and city look better.

I don't think It's a civ killer, It's not like Firaxis guys are going to throw their arms up and go "welp I guess we tried", however, Amplitude's humankind will be a competitor, and honestly I think Firaxis needs the shake up, I find it funny how Amplitude is leaving fantasy behind to aim for historicity, and Firaxis seems to go in the opposite direction.

I want civ VII to be something new and cool, I hope the competition brings that in.

 

[Stringer1313]

Btw, this expectation that Humankind will replace Civ and deliver what Civ VI couldn't will end up hurting Humankind, because there are a lot of people with unrealistic expectations about what this game will be, that just can't be matched by the real thing. The hype train has a tendency to crash at disappointment station, and Humankind is building up to take that route, not because the game will be bad, but because it can't possibly reach the perfection that people are imagining by now.

Agreed. This is why at least one developer (cat o nine tails) has already publicly said they do not like the "Civ killer" title and firmly rejects it. These are two different 4X's, each with features that some gamers will hate. I'm one of those people that does not like tactical combat because it bogs things down but I'm keeping an open mind (esp since you can auto resolve), and I also firmly dislike the spreadsheet nature of Humankind (all 4X's are spreadsheets but for some reason Humankind feels more spreadsheet-y based on Open Dev). But I also dislike the undynamic nature of Civ. So something for everyone.

The only reason people say civ killer (other than that it attracts media clicks) is because for some extremely odd reason, no one has developed a stone-age-to-present Earth-based 4X like Civ for years/decades (last one I remember is Call to Power). For some reason, there are tons of Space 4X's (most of which are crappy IMO) but nothing earth based (as far as I'm aware).

Thus the fact that there is even one Developer that has done this has made news.

 

[King Rad]

I like some of the concepts in Humankind, but I have also played it and personally find it much lacking compared to Civ. I really don't like the warfare [or even attacking an animal] in Humankind. The concept sounds good, but I don't like the execution. As an example, I moved my armies to surround a mastodon - only to find it was on different tiles when the actual battle screen opened. I prefer Civ's combat method.
Now, obviously everything I've said here is based on my personal likes/dislikes/bias. Each person will find it more or less to their liking [hmmmmm, sounds like certain aspects of Civ]. I will probably acquire it, but really don't see it coming anywhere close to replacing Civ for me.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Agreed. This is why at least one developer (cat o nine tails) has already publicly said they do not like the "Civ killer" title and firmly rejects it. These are two different 4X's, each with features that some gamers will hate. I'm one of those people that does not like tactical combat because it bogs things down but I'm keeping an open mind (esp since you can auto resolve), and I also firmly dislike the spreadsheet nature of Humankind (all 4X's are spreadsheets but for some reason Humankind feels more spreadsheet-y based on Open Dev). But I also dislike the undynamic nature of Civ. So something for everyone.

The only reason people say civ killer (other than that it attracts media clicks) is because for some extremely odd reason, no one has developed a stone-age-to-present Earth-based 4X like Civ for years/decades (last one I remember is Call to Power). For some reason, there are tons of Space 4X's (most of which are crappy IMO) but nothing earth based (as far as I'm aware).

Thus the fact that there is even one Developer that has done this has made news.

And also, I have to assume that people working on these games grew up on Civ and wouldn't want to "kill" it even if they could.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

I got to play Humankind Open Dev Beta.

I don't think any competitor usually outright "kills" another in the same genre. It's not like Street Fighter 5 killed any other game like DragonBall Fighterz or Killer Instinct, vis versa, etc. People tend to just buy them all and play one more than the other. When they get bored they boot up the other game for a little bit. The amount of hours spent playing could be your "killer" metric against Civ 6 or 7. Time will tell if that ends up being the case on Steam's metrics...

My take is that serious Civ players, especially those Civ4 purists that hate 1UPT, will probably play this game to death. The stacks are well designed and not even ridiculous. The reason why I say this is because the Humankind AI can be absolutely brutal hard. I lost several combat fights/skirmishes. I sent the Devs a feedback during my testing that they must make sure they have an AI setting that a casual player can handle. At one point the combat was so tough, I looked on Youtube and sure enough, Marbozir and Potato McWhiskey were struggling too. That's a really good thing in my opinion. Civ6 is too easy in a way, and too many guys complain about that. Humankind has the fights you are looking for if that is what you want. Humankind is a thinking man's game hands down. You have to pay alot of attention to the terrain, your flanks, your reserve units, your calvary units, and especially ranged units and the terrain they are on as well, AND the enemy's units placements on top of that! It's much more chess match than checkers. Winning a battle can feel quite rewarding, but might wear out some people if the difficulty is too high.

I think casuals will like this game alot too. It's quite pretty looking overall, the artwork is exceptional, everything looks new and interesting, the UI layout is nice to look at, the ambiance is relaxing, the music is very good, the movements are smooth, the events system is very well done and immersive (something I love from Civ5 Vox Populi), and the flow of the game is more like your own story much more so than how a Civ game makes you feel. I think that story element will really lure in the casuals more than anything else. Civ feels much faster than Humankind and some people will want that faster turn play, but many people on this forum at least, love Marathon and Epic game speed, so....maybe that won't be an issue.

At the end of the day, competition in the marketplace is good for us the consumer. We win in the end. I hope Firaxis steps their game up on Civ7 because if they make another game just like Civ6... it won't be the same acclaim and probably not the same in terms of revenue at release. I can only speak for myself, but I was not going to automatically pre-order Civ7 going back last year. Now that I have played Humankind, I will NOT be buying Civ7 at all unless they give me a good reason to buy it in terms of mechanics and AI which I care the most about.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

The only 'killer' game I can think of in recent memory was Cities Skylines which is now the premier city building game but a lot of that came down to Sim City online being such a disaster and EA not bothering with the series since.

I've really never got the impression here or anywhere else that Humankind will be the perfect Civ killing game It just seems a lot of people are tired with the direction and evolution Civ has been taking and are relishing a chance to try something new and with Amplitudes previous work and how this game is shaping up theres good reasons to be excited.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

The only 'killer' game I can think of in recent memory was Cities Skylines which is now the premier city building game but a lot of that came down to Sim City online being such a disaster and EA not bothering with the series since.

I've really never got the impression here or anywhere else that Humankind will be the perfect Civ killing game It just seems a lot of people are tired with the direction and evolution Civ has been taking and are relishing a chance to try something new and with Amplitudes previous work and how this game is shaping up theres good reasons to be excited.

Yeah, it didn't kill SimCity as much as SC made some very poor life choices ended up face down in a ditch somewhere.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

The only 'killer' game I can think of in recent memory was Cities Skylines which is now the premier city building game but a lot of that came down to Sim City online being such a disaster and EA not bothering with the series since.

I've really never got the impression here or anywhere else that Humankind will be the perfect Civ killing game It just seems a lot of people are tired with the direction and evolution Civ has been taking and are relishing a chance to try something new and with Amplitudes previous work and how this game is shaping up theres good reasons to be excited.

Yeah, it didn't kill SimCity as much as SC made some very poor life choices ended up face down in a ditch somewhere.

It's astounding just how awful EA treated Sim City as an intellectual property! It's enough to make you legit angry. That Sim City mobile game they made was a loot box cash grab greedy move too. EA is where anything not Madden or FIFA goes to die. Utterly disgusting, but unfortunately in this day and age, singleplayer is persona non grata, multiplayer and loot boxes/gambling is king. As much as I criticize Firaxis, even I have to appreciate that they are still willing to make singleplayer games and make content for it. That's one of the reasons why I bought every pack they released, even though I wished it was a bit better. We do have to try and support those kinds of developers, but still we cannot just throw money away at anything either. They still need to meet us half way too.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yeah, the people with so many bad things to say about where Civ has gone didn't have their hearts broken by SimCity, IMO

 

[Haig]

What puts me off Humankind at the monent is that it carries so much from Endless Legend with it, the province system and the awful unnecessary combat.

I also don't like the thing of Maya transforming into Germany transforming into Japan.

Plus I have a feel that the empires will not have the distinct feeling of Civ but will be more like Blue Empire versus Green Empire versus Red empire.

But yeah I guess this thread is better for the Humankind subforum.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Oh god, one of these "is X a Y killer" thread with no actual argument that pops up like every day for like every subject.

And the answer is no.

 

[God of Kings]

Similar to Cities: Skylines "killing" SimCity, Planet Coaster (being a new IP) also "killed" RollerCoaster Tycoon (being an established IP) and it's mainly due to very bad decisions made by the latter.

 

[criZp]

If humankind "kills" civ, it would be because the civilization devs allowed it by not caring about things like AI and effective unit management

Moderator Action: Changed your text to comply with forum rules without changing your meaning. leif

 

[Krajzen]

Everybody is welcome at Humankind subforum, it is lovely place, you should visit us here, every week there is a new culture revealed and we are 5/6 way through.

I don't like such agressive, sensationalist title, it's like modern day clickbait journalism (though if anybody ever says Humankind is "Dark Souls of 4X games" I'll die from laughter). With Humankind we will have total of TWO high budget videogames "4X empire building simulation of history from ancient era to space". TWO games in a "genre" is not nearly enough to make 'killing' necessary

I have played Humankind in open dev and it's VERY different from civ. Land is divided on territories, combat is on tactical battlefields, players switch between many "civilizations" during the game, there are no historical leaders but generated avatars, there are no victories per se but one very elaborate version of score victory etc etc. One can coexist next to another.

Although personally I'll 100% switch to Humankind if it's decent, as Civ6 have somehow managed to annoy me with almost every design decision it has ever made. Different tastes I guess.

as long as humankind has the same tactical combat system as in endless legend, no, not for me.

If humankind has a strong Military AI its the only way they can possible unseat Civ. Its there for the taking. At least 25% of people (including me) would enjoy getting my cities taken and forced to battle back.

Humankind has tactical battles very different from both civ6 and Endless Legend, and I had more difficulty winning them in pre alpha than combating civ6 AI after fours years od patching

 

[universecreep]

as long as humankind has the same tactical combat system as in endless legend, no, not for me.

is the 4x genre as a whole approaching Rts-level dead? maybe.

You know, I was thinking the exact same thing but I played the humankind demo and didn't find it as plodding as endless legend. I'm optimistic but I completely understand your concern.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Humankind has tactical battles very different from both civ6 and Endless Legend, and I had more difficulty winning them in pre alpha than combating civ6 AI after fours years od patching

As well as after four years of playing, to be fair