HUMANKIND a Civ VI killer?

[HiRezAudio]

I think he means that Civ6 has been out and sold well.

That would make much more sense, even though Civ 6 has been out much, much longer than 'a couple of years' now.

Humankind is not out yet.

Yes, I know - still pre-ordered it, and it is listed in my games but unavailable

 

[criZp]

Civ VI also provides a list of what's already been built in the city UI...

In civ 5 it was 1 click away, in civ 6 it is 3 clicks away

 

[HiRezAudio]

In civ 5 it was 1 click away, in civ 6 it is 3 clicks away

That is very common these days, and also happens in software I use for a living - stuff that used to be right there out in the open gets buried away behind multiple mouse clicks.
It's infuriating.

 

[bbbt]

Humankind has tactical battles very different from both civ6 and Endless Legend, and I had more difficulty winning them in pre alpha than combating civ6 AI after fours years od patching

That sounds promising. Though a lot of the time these things get easier once the internet hivemind gets to them. Not necessarily the tactics themselves but 'optimize this way and soon your science and armies will be 2X the AIs' sort of thing.

I tried Endless Legend but couldn't get into it. Still pre-ordering Humankind though.

I'd say for EL, the 'peaceful' victory options all seemed pretty bland (and I wasn't a fan of the combat system), but hopefully Humankind's score victory approach will mitigate that.

 

[j51]

I really liked Endless Legend and thought that the way the factions we're extremely differentiated from each other made it fun to play each one. When Civ 6 was announced I was excited that they went more in that direction with the civs and also added districts. With so many civs in the game now, a lot of them, especially the early release civs, have lost their flavor, but the district system is still fun. In fact, it's the only thing that is fun about Civ IV.

I haven't sunk this few hours into a Civ game since at least Civ III, if ever. I've played every Civ since I and VI is by far the weakest. III and V started out very weak, but the expansions filled them out and added depth. In VI, all the expansions do, as many have stated in this tread, is add more broken mechanics on top of other broken mechanics without tying anything together into a single holistic system of play. It's like a toy-box full tons of cheap plastic toys that some kid has chewed and drooled on.

I have hope, based on Amplitude's previous track record and their open-dev process that Humankind will be a great option for people looking for a meatier and more thought-out historical 4X game. I also hope it teaches Firaxis a thing or two and that they course correct when developing VII.

 

[Duomo1334]

HUMANKIND a Civ VI killer?
After seeing the first view of Babylon, I can answer this question in the affirmative.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That would make much more sense, even though Civ 6 has been out much, much longer than 'a couple of years' now.

I was implying that Civ 6 has sold well, not that Humankind is out yet.

I use the phrase "a couple" interchangeably with "a few".

 

[Quueg]

Endless Legend and Endless Space were both really good games, so those guys know what they're doing. And the AI in both games is far superior to the mess that is Civ 6. So if the new game lives up to the old ones -- and if the Civ business model continues down the path of "add even more ways to watch the AI not be able to play the game" -- then I'm likely out on Civ for good.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

'Out on Civ for good' is needlessly absolute, wouldn't you say?

Humankind looks cool, I'm looking forward to giving it a try, but I suspect it won't completely replace Civ VI for me.

 

[Quueg]

'Out on Civ for good' is needlessly absolute, wouldn't you say?

Humankind looks cool, I'm looking forward to giving it a try, but I suspect it won't completely replace Civ VI for me.

No. Civ 6 is zero fun for me because the AI is so weak. I like the "idea" of the game but not the actual game. And the DLC path seems largely oblivious to the glaring AI problems.

I'm looking forward to starting fresh with a new game system.

 

[pokiehl]

Endless Legend and Endless Space were both really good games, so those guys know what they're doing. And the AI in both games is far superior to the mess that is Civ 6. So if the new game lives up to the old ones -- and if the Civ business model continues down the path of "add even more ways to watch the AI not be able to play the game" -- then I'm likely out on Civ for good.

Endless series games and good AI? Uhhh...I think you're letting your disappointment with civ 6 cloud your memory a bit here. The AI is awful in those games (and this is the majority opinion of the playerbases).

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I like some of the concepts in Humankind, but I have also played it and personally find it much lacking compared to Civ. I really don't like the warfare [or even attacking an animal] in Humankind. The concept sounds good, but I don't like the execution. As an example, I moved my armies to surround a mastodon - only to find it was on different tiles when the actual battle screen opened. I prefer Civ's combat method.
Now, obviously everything I've said here is based on my personal likes/dislikes/bias. Each person will find it more or less to their liking [hmmmmm, sounds like certain aspects of Civ]. I will probably acquire it, but really don't see it coming anywhere close to replacing Civ for me.

That does not sound appealing to me. Who would want to spend 5 turns and use 3 archers to kill a BLOODY ELEPHANT WITH FUR??!! While I enjoy the graphics and look of Humankind, that combat system is not appealing to me.

 

[c4c6]

Who would want to spend 5 turns and use 3 archers to kill a BLOODY ELEPHANT WITH FUR??!!

Perhaps somebody who understands, that abundant starts with gloriously (over)powered Civs showering turn after turn in piles of yields and here a bonus and there one more [["omg, they are stacking, that is ridiculous!" while drooling in happiness!! ... lots help a lot - always!!! ]] lead (too) rapidly to giant snowballs, which nobody can stop [because "do never take away a goody from the player"]?
And still some are wondering, why the game then becomes boring!



One cookie makes fun. One more cookie makes more fun. Apply induction ..................................................................... Now you are fat, the power generator lied.

 

[Casworon]

Endless series games and good AI? Uhhh...I think you're letting your disappointment with civ 6 cloud your memory a bit here. The AI is awful in those games (and this is the majority opinion of the playerbases).

It does however have an incredible community patch which vastly improves the AI and makes it one of the best 4x games I've ever played. In fact i'll go further and say that in my opinion Civ V with Vox Populi and Endless Legend with the community patch are the two best 4x games ever.

After I put thousand of hours into 4x games the capability of the AI became much more important to me than lots of new features. And in both these cases the vast AI improvements came from community patches being worked on for years after the games release.

Which is the main reason why i am so disappointed at the lack of DLL modding for Civ VI. It effectively means the game will never become a masterpiece like Vox and the Endless Legend community patch, because despite all the game pieces being there, the AI will never get to the point of being able to use all those pieces effectively to make a challenging engaging experience, for me at least. Improving the AI to this level will require continued work for years after the game is complete and the developers have moved on. Something only a dedicated community can really provide

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Perhaps somebody who understands, that abundant starts with gloriously (over)powered Civs showering turn after turn in piles of yields and here a bonus and there one more [["omg, they are stacking, that is ridiculous!" while drooling in happiness!! ... lots help a lot - always!!! ]] lead (too) rapidly to giant snowballs, which nobody can stop [because "do never take away a goody from the player"]?
And still some are wondering, why the game then becomes boring!



One cookie makes fun. One more cookie makes more fun. Apply induction ..................................................................... Now you are fat, the power generator lied.

I'm not saying that Civ 6 is perfect, and it's not. What I'm saying, is that a lot of people wouldn't want to spend 5 turns just chasing a mastodon. Civ 6 can learn from Humankind in many ways, but Humankind isn't out yet. This hype train is probably going to hurt Humankind instead of helping it, anyway. Considering some people believe that this is a Civ killer, they will have expectations far too high, and then if Humankind doesn't deliver those expectations, those people are going to be disappointed. In short, Humankind could provide competition for Civ 6, but the hype train doesn't make me feel optimistic.

It does however have an incredible community patch which vastly improves the AI and makes it one of the best 4x games I've ever played. In fact i'll go further and say that in my opinion Civ V with Vox Populi and Endless Legend with the community patch are the two best 4x games ever.

After I put thousand of hours into 4x games the capability of the AI became much more important to me than lots of new features. And in both these cases the vast AI improvements came from community patches being worked on for years after the games release.

Which is the main reason why i am so disappointed at the lack of DLL modding for Civ VI. It effectively means the game will never become a masterpiece like Vox and the Endless Legend community patch, because despite all the game pieces being there, the AI will never get to the point of being able to use all those pieces effectively to make a challenging engaging experience, for me at least. Improving the AI to this level will require continued work for years after the game is complete and the developers have moved on. Something only a dedicated community can really provide

There are mods to fix these like Civilizations Expanded and Real Strategy. I highly recommend the first mod. It buffs up every Civilization and makes them all equally good and equally overpowered. Although, you are right. We need a total overhaul of the A.I. in Civ 6, but that will only happen if the Civ 6 community puts their backs into it. We need action, not just words.

 

[Elhoim]

but that will only happen if the Civ 6 community puts their backs into it. We need action, not just words.

A deep AI improvement would only happen if Firaxis releases the source code. Right now they can only tweak a few exposed modifiers, which can help a bit, but not reach the level you can with the source code (as it was the case with VP, for example).

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

A deep AI improvement would only happen if Firaxis releases the source code. Right now they can only tweak a few exposed modifiers, which can help a bit, but not reach the level you can with the source code (as it was the case with VP, for example).

Well, rats... I do hope they will do that. Imagine the things we could do with that... But thanks for the information, Elhoim.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm not saying that Civ 6 is perfect, and it's not. What I'm saying, is that a lot of people wouldn't want to spend 5 turns just chasing a mastodon. Civ 6 can learn from Humankind in many ways, but Humankind isn't out yet. This hype train is probably going to hurt Humankind instead of helping it, anyway. Considering some people believe that this is a Civ killer, they will have expectations far too high, and then if Humankind doesn't deliver those expectations, those people are going to be disappointed. In short, Humankind could provide competition for Civ 6, but the hype train doesn't make me feel optimistic.

Well one thing that does interest me at least is the fact that there is an age like this where you can hunt these things before the start of the what would be the Ancient Era.
Honestly I think that would be fun in civ but I don't know how they would implement it at all in this game.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Well one thing that does interest me at least is the fact that there is an age like this where you can hunt these things before the start of the what would be the Ancient Era.
Honestly I think that would be fun in civ but I don't know how they would implement it at all in this game.

Couldn't we just assume that they hunt these things with the people back at the capital settlement instead of wasting time and effort chasing animals all over the map? This is all just my personal bias/likes, and I won't pretend to be unbiased.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Couldn't we just assume that they hunt these things with the people back at the capital settlement instead of wasting time and effort chasing animals all over the map? This is all just my personal bias/likes, and I won't pretend to be unbiased.

I think it would be interesting if it was put into an optional game mode where you had a "Prehistoric" era before the age of urban settlements, like they do in Humankind.
I think the combat system wouldn't be too different from what we already have in Civ especially trying to chase after Barbarian scouts already.