Humankind - Byzantines discussion thread

[Guandao]

My old Byzantine History professor described the Hippodrome races as "a World Cup Every Week" in their effect on the population . . .

Yep, the Nika riots showed as much.....

 

[Uberfrog]

As far as I understand, the importance of the Hippodromes to the Byzantines could be summarized as: Horse Races were to them what gladiatorial fights were to the Romans, entertainment to win the favor of the population.

Chariot racing was extremely popular in the classical era too, it just became more so as gladiatorial shows went out of fashion in the Byzantine age.

But for some reason the fights in the colosseum capture our modern imagination more, despite the best efforts of a Ben Hur!

Surely you could make similar arguments against culture as well. Can any civilisation’s or people’s culture be considered superior to another’s? And can the artistic accomplishments of individuals really be attributed to the faction they belong to? Through trade, the movement of people, and change in authority, cultural traditions are spread across borders, evolving and mixing with others. It is fluid and difficult to control, like religion or any other concept that is propergated by the general populace of a nation.

This, exactly. People in this thread have made convincing arguments about how Faith in Civ is abstracted and gamified beyond historical accuracy, but the implementation of Culture is just as silly really. Culture as a national product instead of a blending of influences past and present, local and foreign is just as odd.

I have no problem with gamifying either system, the more that is in the player’s hands the better as far as I’m concerned for these sort of 4X games. It’s just a matter of how fun and convincing the mechanics are.

 

[Patine]

Chariot racing was extremely popular in the classical era too, it just became more so as gladiatorial shows went out of fashion in the Byzantine age.

But for some reason the fights in the colosseum capture our modern imagination more, despite the best efforts of a Ben Hur!

Cheap and easily accessable violent AND fast-faced entertainment to placate and distract the masses who might otherwise gripe and even rebel against their government is NOT an innovation of the modern world...

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Chariot racing was extremely popular in the classical era too, it just became more so as gladiatorial shows went out of fashion in the Byzantine age.

But for some reason the fights in the colosseum capture our modern imagination more, despite the best efforts of a Ben Hur!

The most prestigious event in the Olympics after the early 4th century BCE was the 4 Horse Chariot Race. Peculiarly, the award went to the owner of the chariot team, not the driver, so that a wealthy woman is listed as an Olympic Winner even though she wasn't even allowed to attend or watch the Games!

I have no problem with gamifying either system, the more that is in the player’s hands the better as far as I’m concerned for these sort of 4X games. It’s just a matter of how fun and convincing the mechanics are.

On this I'm afraid we part company. Having complete control of religion, culture, and everything else in a Civilization for dozens of centuries may be a great ego boost, but it makes a supposedly Historical 4X into a Fantasy 4X for me. It also (and again this is just for me personally), makes the game too predictable. Instead of problems relating to the effects of religion or culture, all the gamer is left with are opportunities to produce the cultural attributes or religious 'bonuses' they want.
I would much rather play with the historical Problems - 'gamified', to be sure - connected with Things You Cannot Really Directly Change, like religion, culture, climate, geography (mostly - you can still dam and canal in places) rather than make them just another set of Bonuses to apply at will in each game. I've said it before, but it pretty much is my attitude towards the game design:

Religion is what happens to you and your Civ that you have to deal with, not something you can choose and manipulate at will.

- the same goes to the Culture as it changes and modifies itself throughout the game. You may be able to influence it (and/or Religion) but you cannot really 'form' it as you will. IF you could, I doubt that any nation in the world today would look or act the way it does!