Humankind - Ghana discussion thread
- Thread starter Eagle Pursuit
- Start date
j51
Blue Star Cadet
Yeah, me too, but in DLC. There's just so many other African cultures to pick from, especially from that era! That's why I hope they add another Middle era in. Then there could be something like Ghana (merchant) - Mali (expansionist) - Songhai (merchant).
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Regarding Camels, I agree that the fact that camels started to be used for trade across the Sahara about the time the 'Kingdom of Ghana' is first mentioned, and the fact that saddles and the techniques of riding camels had already been developed several centuries earlier in Arabia, makes it very likely that 'Ghana' had warriors mounted on camels.
To use a development from another, later (potential) Faction, Palmyra used Caravan Guards, who were all camel-mounted, as their cavalry, enlisting them as needed when a conflict started - sort of Very Experienced Militia. I strongly suspect, having a similar emphasis on Trade, that both the Nabateans and the Ghanans' States may have used the same system and therefore had an army whose core was Camel-Mounted cavalry.
Which also gives some indication of how many Factions could have Camel-mounted troops, without even mentioning the Bactrian Camels over in Central Asia or the Arabs themselves!
To use a development from another, later (potential) Faction, Palmyra used Caravan Guards, who were all camel-mounted, as their cavalry, enlisting them as needed when a conflict started - sort of Very Experienced Militia. I strongly suspect, having a similar emphasis on Trade, that both the Nabateans and the Ghanans' States may have used the same system and therefore had an army whose core was Camel-Mounted cavalry.
Which also gives some indication of how many Factions could have Camel-mounted troops, without even mentioning the Bactrian Camels over in Central Asia or the Arabs themselves!
Its slightly annoying how three Subsaharan civs in a row are all merchant, but tbh there is not much choice
For ancient (pre 1000BC) there really is no option other than Nubia (by current knowledge of course - SA would have so damn much potential of archeological research if they had money, stability, infrastructure and global interest). And Nubia really doesn't deserve other focus imo (builder, agrarian and aestethe are all, well, nice but still league under Egypt). No expansionist either (actually Egypt under New Kingdom would deserve this focus), and no scientist (tbh wouldn't even give this to Egypt after reading about their miserable "mathematics"). And militarist seems off.
For classical your only well documented options are continued incarnations of Nubia and Axum (civilization in Nigeria reaches this era but it is still barely known to archeology, as I said). Both are best summed up as merchant civs.
Civilization in Somalia reaches ancient era (Punt) but terribly documented until medieval and of course 150% merchant focus
Finally there is an explosion of civs in medieval era. Ghana, Mali, Kanem, Hausa, again more Nubia (Makuria, Alodia), Ethiopia really emerging and much better documented than Axum, medieval Somalia, Swahilli, Zimbabwe.. And all those civs apart from Ethiopia are best summed up with merchant focus!!! The only real alternatives is making Mali into expansionist (you should agree this already feels off even if it makes sense), Ethiopia or maybe reaching for Nigerian civilizations (unfortunately it seems no other human is fan of Yoruba civ besides me).
I really hope we won't get more merchant SA civs in 1.0 release
Regarding next era there are possibilities for expansionist (Songhai), militarist (Ashanti, Benin, Yoruba kingdom of Oyo), aestethe (Kongo, Ethiopia imho), idk (Merina in Madagascar)...
In industral era I vaguely recall some bleak hints we again get Zulu (sigh, if you want militarist anti colonial civs then Ashanti are so much more impressive, or damn Ethiopia which actually managed to win this period).
And I'd be damn surprised if we didn't get Ethiopia in modern era then. By far the most important 20th century African civ, with only possible contenders being Nigeria (less known in West), Kenya and Ghana (disqualified by medieval Ghana).
And South Africa but I think nobody would like apartheid state as modern reprezentantion of Black Africa lol.
I have changed my mind, in the future I am not against Mali getting scientist focus. It is far fetched a bit but if any Subsaharan civs should get sci focus then it should be Mali, it actually had proper "hard" scientific knowledge for few centuries, in Timbuktu and Sankore. I just hoped this isn't THE ultimate scientist civ for 1.0 medieval era release lol.
For ancient (pre 1000BC) there really is no option other than Nubia (by current knowledge of course - SA would have so damn much potential of archeological research if they had money, stability, infrastructure and global interest). And Nubia really doesn't deserve other focus imo (builder, agrarian and aestethe are all, well, nice but still league under Egypt). No expansionist either (actually Egypt under New Kingdom would deserve this focus), and no scientist (tbh wouldn't even give this to Egypt after reading about their miserable "mathematics"). And militarist seems off.
For classical your only well documented options are continued incarnations of Nubia and Axum (civilization in Nigeria reaches this era but it is still barely known to archeology, as I said). Both are best summed up as merchant civs.
Civilization in Somalia reaches ancient era (Punt) but terribly documented until medieval and of course 150% merchant focus
Finally there is an explosion of civs in medieval era. Ghana, Mali, Kanem, Hausa, again more Nubia (Makuria, Alodia), Ethiopia really emerging and much better documented than Axum, medieval Somalia, Swahilli, Zimbabwe.. And all those civs apart from Ethiopia are best summed up with merchant focus!!! The only real alternatives is making Mali into expansionist (you should agree this already feels off even if it makes sense), Ethiopia or maybe reaching for Nigerian civilizations (unfortunately it seems no other human is fan of Yoruba civ besides me).
I really hope we won't get more merchant SA civs in 1.0 release
Regarding next era there are possibilities for expansionist (Songhai), militarist (Ashanti, Benin, Yoruba kingdom of Oyo), aestethe (Kongo, Ethiopia imho), idk (Merina in Madagascar)...
In industral era I vaguely recall some bleak hints we again get Zulu (sigh, if you want militarist anti colonial civs then Ashanti are so much more impressive, or damn Ethiopia which actually managed to win this period).
And I'd be damn surprised if we didn't get Ethiopia in modern era then. By far the most important 20th century African civ, with only possible contenders being Nigeria (less known in West), Kenya and Ghana (disqualified by medieval Ghana
).And South Africa but I think nobody would like apartheid state as modern reprezentantion of Black Africa lol.
I have changed my mind, in the future I am not against Mali getting scientist focus. It is far fetched a bit but if any Subsaharan civs should get sci focus then it should be Mali, it actually had proper "hard" scientific knowledge for few centuries, in Timbuktu and Sankore. I just hoped this isn't THE ultimate scientist civ for 1.0 medieval era release lol.
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j51
Blue Star Cadet
No I'd love that - especially if they we're aesthetes! They are one of the most influential cultures in terms of what modern music sounds like the world over.
BuchiTaton
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2019
- Messages
- 1,261
I understand what devs did with "Persia" instead of the dynastic names because many of them would be classical, on Medieval Era Iran was controled mainly by foreign non-aryan or just part-aryan dynasties. Then muslim modern Iran could be "Iran" proper.
This is similar to "Aztecs", aztecs are mainly an academic name, Mexicas or even Mexicanos would be a better name (yes Aztecs and even Nahuas in a broader sense used to be named Mexicanos), but of course Aztecs/Mexicans and Persians/Iranias help to differentiate Ancient from Modern ones.
Early modern Yoruba or Akan cultures would be awesome.
I would like to have a pure Sahel line like this:
Nok > Mande > Songhai > Hausa
But if a broader West Africa line is needed a early modern Akan and/or Yoruba would be great to represent the shift of trade from the Sahel to Guinean coast.
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The word you want is Iranian. Proto-Indo-Iranian *aryas > Old Persian Arya- > Middle Persian Ērān > Modern Persian Irân. "Aryan" is reserved for the people in India, even when talking about Old Iranians.
VermelhoRed
Prince
Sign me up for the supporters of an Aesthete Yoruba culture (and also Yoruba for Civ 7).
As far as abilities, in addition to the trans-Saharan caravans and access to sources of gold and salt, would be interesting if the displays of wealth by the Ghanaian rulers (or, if you prefer, the Ghanas) were represented. They are well known for their pointed displays like the 35 pound gold block that the king's horse was tied to or the presence of slaves with golden collars. Maybe you could spend a lump sum of money on influence in your capital city in game?
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