~Corsair#01~
Deity
Well, if the GOTM's on Deity, my lifespan's about 3 turns. 
I came, I SAW, I ...
- Thread starter Arathorn
- Start date
jalapeno_dude
AKA Panda Judo Eel
You're crazy!
Good luck! You'll need it.
I can't beleive someone would even attempt it- I can't even beat Monarch!
Good luck! You'll need it.
I can't beleive someone would even attempt it- I can't even beat Monarch!
Tomoyo
Fate
Well, they don't need low corruption. Corrupt cites can make great specialist farms. Why don't you defend it with slaves?~Corsair#01~ said:
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Simply - this doesn't work anymore in c3c. Zero defence units no longer prevent landings.
Tomoyo
Fate
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
I guess you can still make a ship trap with catapults and an empty city. (It would normally be an exploit though)
Gogf
Indescribable
What is that last one? Never heard of it.
I don't think you're crazy at all. You inspired me to give this a try and I think it can be done. Got the GL and 12 cities (I got a relatively big island to myself with horses iron and 2 lux, probably because ½ island is desert.) Terrible RNG luck and no leaders yet but I'm still holding my own, and I havent used my GA. Well, good luck Ill be following closely.
~Corsair#01~
Deity
Well, I don't think he's doing it anymore, getting a bit quiet round here.
To quote from the AI-
"One day we'll find a player willing to battle it out to the bitter end."
It's really sad how many of these stories are abandoned... A story is for life, not just for er... May!
To quote from the AI-
"One day we'll find a player willing to battle it out to the bitter end."
It's really sad how many of these stories are abandoned... A story is for life, not just for er... May!
~Corsair#01~
Deity
Spoke too soon. 
VeXeD
Chieftain
sounds interesting, i'll have to lok up June's Game of the month
Pliny gives me good news between turns. I'm the most advanced nation in the world! Doing SAW! This game ain't so tough! 
(See Picture at the end...)
In 670 BC, I check the status of my known foes...
Zulu - 2 cities. Up Math. Down Code of Laws, Literature, Map Making.
Egypt - 4 cities. Up Math, Monarchy. Down Code of Laws, Literature, Map Making.
Japan - 6 cities. Up Philosophy. Down Masonry, Literature, Polytheism.
Mongols - 7 cities. Down Mysticism, Literature.
So I get Mathematics between turns. I actually have the most cities, but I'm behind in population and land area to a few of these guys. I start setting up Niagara Falls as an eventual 4-turn settler factory for the north island and Grand River as a 2-turn worker farm, to improve homeland and to ship north to improve that WET land. Glad I picked an arid world!
A new enemy appears in 630 BC. Arabia. They have 8 cities - the most of any of the AI foes so far. But they're down, visibly, Alphabet, and HBR. That's a lot of techs they're down in actuality. I take pity on Abu and take his 255 gold for Alphabet. Yeah, it helps him catch up a bit, but I can make use of 255 gold. And it's only one cheap tech he got. Start exploring his lands.
In 610, Monarchy comes in from the Great Library. I revolt. I debated it a bit, but the tile penalty and the corruption are so horrible under Despotism that I think I can handle the extra unit upkeep costs of Monarchy. There will be a time of adjustment while my cities grow, but I think it will be worth it in the long run. Each city I found, too, might make my anarchy longer.
Anarchy is painful, as no MPs and no luxuries means VERY unhappy cities. I have to alternate a couple between rioting (but food) and happy (but starving) to minimize problems. Either Tonowanda or Oil Springs can't be saved even by this and I lose one population point. I can keep exploring, though!
And I find Lincoln in 590 BC. I take pity on his 7 city empire and sell him Writing for all his 231 gold. Writing is a huge gateway tech, so he was actual a fair bit behind in tech. Construction appears about this time, as well.
In 550 BC, the Iroquois Monarchy is founded. The initial cash situation looks really scary (-9 gpt with science at 0), but after I go through and re-adjust cities, I can actually get to positive income. As long as I don't have to research, I'll be "fine". I'm glad I have a fair cash cushion from selling my techs.
Marketplaces and courthouses will help, too, once I have tech and time to build them. I'm paying 16 gpt in unit upkeep, but that's only going to go up, as I prepare to defend the north island and possibly invade the Mongol mainland. What I really need is an MGL, so I can build an army. Can only put one unit it in and have it shippable, though....
I get my 7th and final contact in 490. The Chinese empire consists of 4 cities on a continent they share with the Americans. The Chinese are down Writing and Construction but don't have enough cash to justify my selling them either tech. One final time, I declare war. It's now official. I'm at war with 7 Sid foes and will be for the rest of the game. *Deep breath*
It took all the way to 470 BC before I could get troops, galleys, and settlers into position to start occupying the north isle. Two cities are founded (and well-enough-defended to survive a single galley landing pretty safely) in the north island. This gets me the FP message. Philosophy also comes from the Great Library, leaving Currency the only ancient age tech I don't have.
Cattaraugus begins the FP immediately. It's not a truly ideal location, but it can grow past size 6, it has reasonable shields, and, especially in C3C, an early FP is much better than an optimally-placed one. Cattaraugus is a good compromise location. It'll take longer than I'd like, as I didn't have a good enough prebuild going. I just keep feeling like I should be getting wiped off the map really soon. I really have to start thinking ahead a bit better. A couple extra MPs are dispatched to Cattaraugus, too, to keep the people happy while they grow and build.
I keep getting the occasional Mongol landing and I am not getting the kind of kill ratio I would like. Even with a bit of bombardment, I lose troops occasionally. I'm keeping my MWs for a rainier day, but I've lost two vet swords attacking regular one-defense units (one an archer, one a horse), one of which had been bombarded. I use my one and only elite troop (an archer) as often as possible, but no luck on popping an MGL yet.
The tech situation in 290 BC:
Zulu - down Literature, Monarchy, Construction
Egypt - down Literature
China - down Writing, Construction
America - down Code of Laws, Literature
Japan - down Masonry, Literature, Monarchy
Arabia - down Writing, Mathematics, HBR, Monarchy
Mongols - down Philosophy, Literature, Monarchy, Construction
I'm starting to get bad unit upkeep costs. The homeland is fairly safe from anything but a 3+ galley invasion landing on one square (which I've had happen in previous games. One game, the Zulus landed 7 swords and 7 impi on one square near my capital in about 1900 BC- it wasn't pretty). It's time to start thinking about an invasion.
I can gather together 5 galleys and 10 units fairly easily? Is that enough? After a minute's thought, I realize that that's not even enough to deal with the starting units of the AI! I'm gonna need 12 fully-loaded galleys at the very least. And the Mongols have no hills/mountains to land on...at all. So more colonization is the way to go. There's iron on an island SW of the Mongols that I'm eying. I have two ways to go - I can send a bunch of units with the settler and just blockade the whole island (but that's painful in terms of cash - the island is larger than what can be supported with two or three towns there) or I can found on the iron hill and try to defend the city. A catapult and two spears behind walls will do pretty well against single-galley invasions. This might help distract the Mongols from targets at home and kill them off. Plus, it would be a tiny but non-zero chance of promotions and MGLs. Hmmmm....
I worry about losing my curragh scouting the American/Chinese homeland. An American galley comes out and attacks it. Fortunately, the PRNG was with me (as well as the odds) and the American galley (about the only AI ship I've seen) goes down without scratching mine. That means they'll be even slower to colonize some of the good islands around them. Fine by me!
I do see a Zulu galley up by north island, though. I'm gonna be SLOW to reinforce my towns up there until I can get some roads built. Hopefully they'll be nuisance attacks or just exploration galleys initially. The Zulu are fairly close to north island, actually, but they're pretty tiny. They can't produce more than a few troops/turn. I just this doesn't mean the Egypt/Zululand war is over already.
Next strategy set of questions I'm asking myself (random thoughts):
- Keep colonizing? I worry about losing small island villages and giving the AI something for nothing. Catapult, spear, spear, on a hill with walls will survive a long time and is upkeep-neutral. Pikes would be better, but I don't know how long it will be until the AI gets Feudalism. What about completely flat islands? How far away from home am I willing to send troops? Is there justification for cost-neutral towns that will be highly corrupt? Can I use specialists to make them valuable?
- When should I try to invade Mongolia? Wait for pikes and trebuchets? Longer even? How many troops will be required? Are my MWs going to be useful?
- When should I trigger my GA? Worth waiting for the FP to finish or is finishing the FP a good use of my GA? Should I try to control it or just use the MWs when it seems necessary?
- How can I get my unit costs under control? I have happiness issues and one happy face is one gold whether it's MP or it's lux tax. I keep shuffling my units to provide maximum MP happiness where needed but it's still tough. There's never a "backline" city, either, that I can just leave empty or with minimal MP. I think happiness is the bigger problem. That can't be solved until Astronomy. Ouch. I've got enough food to use entertainers and the specialists aren't just horrible now. Lots of ideas to play with.
Answers to myself:
- Absolutely colonize. On my lands with roads, I can have a very mobile defense and can actually start focusing a bit on the AI. Plus, more lands now means fewer islands I have to invade later. Any island that is either not totally corrupt, has iron, or is small enough to completely blockade with reasonable cash is to be settled. I'll send troops anywhere safe.
Cost-neutral towns...how many units is that? Well, a town supports 2, gives 1 in tax revenue. That's three. Walls are no upkeep, so I shouldn't need more than units. If I let the town grow to size 2 and then make a specialist, I should be able to keep it size 2 and get 2 more tax. So each town will support 5 units -- up to that many are allowed. Some towns on larger islands may get walls and not a total blockade. I hope I don't regret that decision.
- Not for a LONG LONG time. They're gonna have 60+ units and with no highground to land on, it's going to be painful.
- Trigger the GA when I need it. If I can go without doing it, great. If not, I can use the GA to finish the FP and keep colonizing. Ideal would be to save it until after Education comes from the Library, so I can use GA fuel to get Astronomy ASAP.
- I can't. Keep expanding. Concentrate forces. Hope for the best. One thing at a time.
Sorry for the shortage of pictures. I have a ton of saves (pretty much every turn) and I need to go back and find interesting screens for the story. Just the text of what's going on will have to do for now.
Arathorn
(See Picture at the end...)
In 670 BC, I check the status of my known foes...
Zulu - 2 cities. Up Math. Down Code of Laws, Literature, Map Making.
Egypt - 4 cities. Up Math, Monarchy. Down Code of Laws, Literature, Map Making.
Japan - 6 cities. Up Philosophy. Down Masonry, Literature, Polytheism.
Mongols - 7 cities. Down Mysticism, Literature.
So I get Mathematics between turns. I actually have the most cities, but I'm behind in population and land area to a few of these guys. I start setting up Niagara Falls as an eventual 4-turn settler factory for the north island and Grand River as a 2-turn worker farm, to improve homeland and to ship north to improve that WET land. Glad I picked an arid world!
A new enemy appears in 630 BC. Arabia. They have 8 cities - the most of any of the AI foes so far. But they're down, visibly, Alphabet, and HBR. That's a lot of techs they're down in actuality. I take pity on Abu and take his 255 gold for Alphabet. Yeah, it helps him catch up a bit, but I can make use of 255 gold. And it's only one cheap tech he got. Start exploring his lands.
In 610, Monarchy comes in from the Great Library. I revolt. I debated it a bit, but the tile penalty and the corruption are so horrible under Despotism that I think I can handle the extra unit upkeep costs of Monarchy. There will be a time of adjustment while my cities grow, but I think it will be worth it in the long run. Each city I found, too, might make my anarchy longer.
Anarchy is painful, as no MPs and no luxuries means VERY unhappy cities. I have to alternate a couple between rioting (but food) and happy (but starving) to minimize problems. Either Tonowanda or Oil Springs can't be saved even by this and I lose one population point. I can keep exploring, though!
And I find Lincoln in 590 BC. I take pity on his 7 city empire and sell him Writing for all his 231 gold. Writing is a huge gateway tech, so he was actual a fair bit behind in tech. Construction appears about this time, as well.
In 550 BC, the Iroquois Monarchy is founded. The initial cash situation looks really scary (-9 gpt with science at 0), but after I go through and re-adjust cities, I can actually get to positive income. As long as I don't have to research, I'll be "fine". I'm glad I have a fair cash cushion from selling my techs.
Marketplaces and courthouses will help, too, once I have tech and time to build them. I'm paying 16 gpt in unit upkeep, but that's only going to go up, as I prepare to defend the north island and possibly invade the Mongol mainland. What I really need is an MGL, so I can build an army. Can only put one unit it in and have it shippable, though....
I get my 7th and final contact in 490. The Chinese empire consists of 4 cities on a continent they share with the Americans. The Chinese are down Writing and Construction but don't have enough cash to justify my selling them either tech. One final time, I declare war. It's now official. I'm at war with 7 Sid foes and will be for the rest of the game. *Deep breath*
It took all the way to 470 BC before I could get troops, galleys, and settlers into position to start occupying the north isle. Two cities are founded (and well-enough-defended to survive a single galley landing pretty safely) in the north island. This gets me the FP message. Philosophy also comes from the Great Library, leaving Currency the only ancient age tech I don't have.
Cattaraugus begins the FP immediately. It's not a truly ideal location, but it can grow past size 6, it has reasonable shields, and, especially in C3C, an early FP is much better than an optimally-placed one. Cattaraugus is a good compromise location. It'll take longer than I'd like, as I didn't have a good enough prebuild going. I just keep feeling like I should be getting wiped off the map really soon. I really have to start thinking ahead a bit better. A couple extra MPs are dispatched to Cattaraugus, too, to keep the people happy while they grow and build.
I keep getting the occasional Mongol landing and I am not getting the kind of kill ratio I would like. Even with a bit of bombardment, I lose troops occasionally. I'm keeping my MWs for a rainier day, but I've lost two vet swords attacking regular one-defense units (one an archer, one a horse), one of which had been bombarded. I use my one and only elite troop (an archer) as often as possible, but no luck on popping an MGL yet.
The tech situation in 290 BC:
Zulu - down Literature, Monarchy, Construction
Egypt - down Literature
China - down Writing, Construction
America - down Code of Laws, Literature
Japan - down Masonry, Literature, Monarchy
Arabia - down Writing, Mathematics, HBR, Monarchy
Mongols - down Philosophy, Literature, Monarchy, Construction
I'm starting to get bad unit upkeep costs. The homeland is fairly safe from anything but a 3+ galley invasion landing on one square (which I've had happen in previous games. One game, the Zulus landed 7 swords and 7 impi on one square near my capital in about 1900 BC- it wasn't pretty). It's time to start thinking about an invasion.
I can gather together 5 galleys and 10 units fairly easily? Is that enough? After a minute's thought, I realize that that's not even enough to deal with the starting units of the AI! I'm gonna need 12 fully-loaded galleys at the very least. And the Mongols have no hills/mountains to land on...at all. So more colonization is the way to go. There's iron on an island SW of the Mongols that I'm eying. I have two ways to go - I can send a bunch of units with the settler and just blockade the whole island (but that's painful in terms of cash - the island is larger than what can be supported with two or three towns there) or I can found on the iron hill and try to defend the city. A catapult and two spears behind walls will do pretty well against single-galley invasions. This might help distract the Mongols from targets at home and kill them off. Plus, it would be a tiny but non-zero chance of promotions and MGLs. Hmmmm....
I worry about losing my curragh scouting the American/Chinese homeland. An American galley comes out and attacks it. Fortunately, the PRNG was with me (as well as the odds) and the American galley (about the only AI ship I've seen) goes down without scratching mine. That means they'll be even slower to colonize some of the good islands around them. Fine by me!
I do see a Zulu galley up by north island, though. I'm gonna be SLOW to reinforce my towns up there until I can get some roads built. Hopefully they'll be nuisance attacks or just exploration galleys initially. The Zulu are fairly close to north island, actually, but they're pretty tiny. They can't produce more than a few troops/turn. I just this doesn't mean the Egypt/Zululand war is over already.
Next strategy set of questions I'm asking myself (random thoughts):
- Keep colonizing? I worry about losing small island villages and giving the AI something for nothing. Catapult, spear, spear, on a hill with walls will survive a long time and is upkeep-neutral. Pikes would be better, but I don't know how long it will be until the AI gets Feudalism. What about completely flat islands? How far away from home am I willing to send troops? Is there justification for cost-neutral towns that will be highly corrupt? Can I use specialists to make them valuable?
- When should I try to invade Mongolia? Wait for pikes and trebuchets? Longer even? How many troops will be required? Are my MWs going to be useful?
- When should I trigger my GA? Worth waiting for the FP to finish or is finishing the FP a good use of my GA? Should I try to control it or just use the MWs when it seems necessary?
- How can I get my unit costs under control? I have happiness issues and one happy face is one gold whether it's MP or it's lux tax. I keep shuffling my units to provide maximum MP happiness where needed but it's still tough. There's never a "backline" city, either, that I can just leave empty or with minimal MP. I think happiness is the bigger problem. That can't be solved until Astronomy. Ouch. I've got enough food to use entertainers and the specialists aren't just horrible now. Lots of ideas to play with.
Answers to myself:
- Absolutely colonize. On my lands with roads, I can have a very mobile defense and can actually start focusing a bit on the AI. Plus, more lands now means fewer islands I have to invade later. Any island that is either not totally corrupt, has iron, or is small enough to completely blockade with reasonable cash is to be settled. I'll send troops anywhere safe.
Cost-neutral towns...how many units is that? Well, a town supports 2, gives 1 in tax revenue. That's three. Walls are no upkeep, so I shouldn't need more than units. If I let the town grow to size 2 and then make a specialist, I should be able to keep it size 2 and get 2 more tax. So each town will support 5 units -- up to that many are allowed. Some towns on larger islands may get walls and not a total blockade. I hope I don't regret that decision.
- Not for a LONG LONG time. They're gonna have 60+ units and with no highground to land on, it's going to be painful.
- Trigger the GA when I need it. If I can go without doing it, great. If not, I can use the GA to finish the FP and keep colonizing. Ideal would be to save it until after Education comes from the Library, so I can use GA fuel to get Astronomy ASAP.
- I can't. Keep expanding. Concentrate forces. Hope for the best. One thing at a time.
Sorry for the shortage of pictures. I have a ton of saves (pretty much every turn) and I need to go back and find interesting screens for the story. Just the text of what's going on will have to do for now.
Arathorn
Attachments
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
Archipelago, on your own, not the Sid always war challenge most of us had in mind
A bit of a cop-out in fact
A bit of a cop-out in fact
kittenOFchaos said:Archipelago, on your own, not the Sid always war challenge most of us had in mind
A bit of a cop-out in fact
You try assaulting a Sid island defended by 300-500 units. Arathorn will certainly have his work cut out for him between Education and Espionage.
When forming your beachhead Arathorn, it might not be a bad idea to bring along 4 settlers, to get your fortress to size 7 as quickly as possible. I've played 3 Sid games the past week and this really helps to minimize casualties. My rush order in such a city was usually Walls, Barracks (Barracks, Walls is much less effective), aqueduct, harbor, with a temple in there if need be.
handy900
Deity
Hard for me to call any AWS game a cop out. Good Luck 
biggamer132
King
This is incredible. Best of luck Arathorn, since I would never survive on a game that hard (I only have the original Civ III, but UPS is arriving with my copy tomorrow, according to their site).
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
Ankka said:Do better yourself, how about a huge pangaea on Sid?
Hehe, as a tester what do you think the first thing I did as soon as Sid-level was released during the Conquests beta
What happened? State secret
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