I have the perfect was to solve the problem of illegal immigration, FOREVER!

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The answer to the illegal immigration problem is quite simple: legalize it. America, and all other Western countries where immigration is a costly and time consuming procedure, must reduce the red tape required to gain legal entry to nil. Simply throw open the floodgates, and anyone who wishes to apply for residency/landed immigrant status within is entitled to do so, with very few questions asked.

Fees associated with immigration must be removed, as they are a form of financial segregation. It is no secret that living and working conditions in countries such as America or Canada are much greater than those of the third world, and with immigration fees into the (tens of) thousands of dollars, the vast majority of people living in the world cannot afford access to a better life inside Western nations. Why should we do this? Why should we deny poor people living in Aisia, Africa, and Latin America the chance at a better life, at clean drinking water, at competent health care, simply because they have no money? It is a person's inalienable human right to move about the world as he or she pleases, and in charging exorbitant fees to those who simply wish to live a better life in another country is segregation of the poor from the middle and upper class. It is elitism, the supposed democracies of the world stating that they do not wish the poor of other nations within their borders.

Not only are the costs of immigration into Western countries excessively high, but the red tape around the whole process, even those who are financially eligible is needlessly excessive. Do refugees living in tents in some camp in the middle of the desert have six years to wait before their immigration application is approved? Unless, of course, on the rare occasion that some government official decides arbitrarily to apply refugee status and admit .05% of them as refugees.

The form for immigration into the United States (or Canada, UK, France, etc) should consist of two questions: 1) Are you an American (or Canadian, British, etc) citizen? To which the respondant would obviously answer "no." 2) Do you wish to live inside America? To which the respondant would select "yes." At this point, an "approved" stamp would be issued, and the person would emigrate to the country of application.

Current immigration laws are not too lax; they are too severe. Excessive bureaucracy surrounding immigration laws constitute a violation of human rights, particularly amongst the poor of the world.
 
Dude, you do realise that we are talking millions of people here, don't you? Were Spain to implement your ideas, it's population would double in no time. Chaos would be the result.
 
I realize everything. Numbers do not dull the fact that preventing someone access to a better life is a violation of their basic human rights. Governments cannot deny a human being that which is his fundamental right. No one should endorse segregating the human race and forcing the majority to live in squalid conditions simply because they cannot afford an arbitrary fee.
 
I have an even better solution. Privatize everything and let the land owners decide who they allow onto their property.
 
I agree with Pasi. People will stop emigrating when the conditions in their countries are close to the ones in other countries. This way we would be forced to help 3rd world countries to improve thier standars of living, saving thousands of human lifes.
 
1. I do not considder it to be a basic human right.

2. Even if it were, implementing such an idea would surely bring down every small country, and bring chaos to the bigger ones doing it. It's pure idealism, with no base in reality what so ever. Were Denmark to implement your idea, we would probably get 10 million or so in a year. That would tripple our population! How should we provide housing for all these people? They would freeze to death in the winter, because they would arrive faster than we could construct buildings they could live in!
 
Aphex_Twin said:
I have an even better solution. Privatize everything and let the land owners decide who they allow onto their property.

This has nothing to do with immigration. It is not up to private individuals to allow or deny entry to a country, it is up to government officials. I am not speaking of land ownership, I am speaking of immigration. Please re-read my post a little more carefully.
 
storealex said:
1. I do not considder it to be a basic human right.

You are wrong. The freedom to move about as one pleases is a basic human right.

storealex said:
2. Even if it were, implementing such an idea would surely bring down every small country, and bring chaos to the bigger ones doing it. It's pure idealism, with no base in reality what so ever. Were Denmark to implement your idea, we would probably get 10 million or so in a year. That you tripple our population! How should we provide housing for all these people? They would freeze to death in the winter, because they would arrive faster than we could construct buildings they could live in!

As soon as conditions for emigration to Denmark become undesireable, it would stop. If people really were freezing to death as a result of lack of housing brought on by excessive immigration, no one would immigrate to Denmark. Hey, maybe your world-leading taxation rates would drop a little too!

In any event, it is not up to you or any other person or entity to deny human beings a basic right simply because you do not believe it to be in your nation's best interest.
 
Pasi Nurminen said:
As soon as conditions for emigration to Denmark become undesireable, it would stop. If people really were freezing to death as a result of lack of housing brought on by excessive immigration, no one would immigrate to Denmark. Hey, maybe your world-leading taxation rates would drop a little too!
So, what you're saying is that we should allow chaos, death and destruction to come to our own country, because when our country would be as crappy as say... Somalia... Somalians would stop come here? Were the entire west to do this, global economy would break down, it would cause millions of deaths, also in the third world.

But yeah... I guess the survivors would at least be equal... for some time (Until human nature change that) But lot's of death, followed by a false dream of equality has always been the communist agenda, has it not Pasi?
 
You assume that allowing excessive numbers of poor foreigners into your nation would cause "chaos, death, and destruction." Have you always been so prejudiced with your judgements of other peoples? Your (and my) economy is not dependent on restricting the access of foreigners into your nation, and you know that. If anything, it would provide a massive boost in economic performance, as the prescence of an increased pool of labour for unskilled positions such as construction or factory work would be a major boon to those respective industries. Government revenue would shoot through the roof through the rapid increase in revenue from taxation. As the demand for consumer products and services increases, the ability to provide these goods and services would keep pace, offsetting the "supply and demand" law of economics. My conservative friend, there would be no "chaos, death, and destruction."

I must go to bed now, but I assure you I will reply to any further comments tomorrow.
 
Pasi Nurminen said:
I realize everything. Numbers do not dull the fact that preventing someone access to a better life is a violation of their basic human rights. Governments cannot deny a human being that which is his fundamental right. No one should endorse segregating the human race and forcing the majority to live in squalid conditions simply because they cannot afford an arbitrary fee.

You also realise that under Dutch law, ANY legal citizen without a job has the right on financial support?
 
Jorge said:
I agree with Pasi. People will stop emigrating when the conditions in their countries are close to the ones in other countries. This way we would be forced to help 3rd world countries to improve thier standars of living, saving thousands of human lifes.

The biggest problem is that we (as in EU/US/UN/several organisations) do not have an answer how we can help 3rd world countries to improve their standards.

It is my believe we should start with lifting agricultural subsidies in the EU and US ;) .
 
Pasi, you are a fool. I am Social Democrat to the bone. Typical of you, to call everyone who dosn't share your utopian ideas for conservatives.

And bloody of course would millions of people in a foreign country, freezing to death because lack of housing, cause chaos, death and destruction! It has nothing to do with prejudges or judgement of "other" people. Any people under these conditions would cause these results, also "my" people if you like.

Oh and funny how you should mention Denmarks economy, because besides the many elderly, the single biggest challenge in our society is to get the immigrants into the workforce, so we don't have to pay them welfare. Otherwise we will have to give up our social system. Denmark is the proof that you should allow immigrants in, at the same pace as the immigrants find jobs, or you will find your self with a growing marginalised community on the dole = recipe for Paris...
 
The answer to the illegal immigration problem is quite simple: legalize it. America, and all other Western countries where immigration is a costly and time consuming procedure, must reduce the red tape required to gain legal entry to nil. Simply throw open the floodgates, and anyone who wishes to apply for residency/landed immigrant status within is entitled to do so, with very few questions asked.

Answer me one question: Since most western "first world" countries run at least 5% or so unemployment at the present, how are their economies supposed to supply jobs to millions of new immigrants overnight?

Unless you have some good answer that I'm not thinking of, it looks to me like your "solution" would cause exactly two things: Worse living conditions for the majority of the people current in the country, and horrid conditions for the people immigrating. Some way to improve your life...
 
Stapel said:
The biggest problem is that we (as in EU/US/UN/several organisations) do not have an answer how we can help 3rd world countries to improve their standards.

It is my believe we should start with lifting agricultural subsidies in the EU and US ;) .

Yes, that is definitely one step in the right direction. Another would be to lower the debt of 3rd world countries that meet certain criteria (steps towards democracy, low corruption, etc...). Also every 1st world nation should give 0.7% of their GDP.
 
Jorge said:
Yes, that is definitely one step in the right direction. Another would be to lower the debt of 3rd world countries that meet certain criteria (steps towards democracy, low corruption, etc...). Also every 1st world nation should give 0.7% of their GDP.
Yeah I totally agree here. Only I would like the 0.7% to be more like 2%.
 
Pasi Nurminen said:
You assume that allowing excessive numbers of poor foreigners into your nation would cause "chaos, death, and destruction." Have you always been so prejudiced with your judgements of other peoples? Your (and my) economy is not dependent on restricting the access of foreigners into your nation, and you know that. If anything, it would provide a massive boost in economic performance, as the prescence of an increased pool of labour for unskilled positions such as construction or factory work would be a major boon to those respective industries. Government revenue would shoot through the roof through the rapid increase in revenue from taxation. As the demand for consumer products and services increases, the ability to provide these goods and services would keep pace, offsetting the "supply and demand" law of economics. My conservative friend, there would be no "chaos, death, and destruction."

I must go to bed now, but I assure you I will reply to any further comments tomorrow.

There would be chaos, death, and destruction. It would not matter who was immigrating, and what their culture is. If that plan were to be implemented, the population of the first world would double or triple. While the population of the third world would plummet. The third world would go even further down the tubes because anyone with half a brain will be on his way to the first world. The first world would be unable to cope with this. Cultural issues aside, all of the immigrants will need jobs and a place to live. Were will they come from? All of these people will be essentially unskilled labour, and there are only so many janitor positions in the world. Most of these people will live in shanty towns were crime rates are through the roof. Any welfare system in place will be unable to cope with the needs of all of these people, and many will starve or freeze to death.

Now we get to the cultural issues, lets take Denmark as an example, but it could be any western nation. The Danes will be outnumbered and outvoted by the immigrants. Foreign customs will begin to supplant Danish customs and there is a very real threat that the Danes will become strangers in their own land. Extreme nationalist movements will gain popularity. This will lead to civil war and possible genocide and expulsions. Imagine this happening in the entire western world.

You speak of economic advantages, but you have to realise that everyone of these people will be paid minimum wage and the chief advantage of third world countries is that they are willing to work for microscopic amounts, minimum wage essentially shoots away this one advantage, if native unskilled laborer's are being paid more than minimum wage, they will be supplanted by immigrants willing to work minimum wage, or will have to accept lower pay, this will lead to more tension between the natives and immigrants. These, my liberal friend, are some of the reasons it would be a bad idea. What you propose is a kind thought, but ultimately a foolish one.
 
Hey, while we're at it, let's eliminate all taxes, disband the military and smoke pot all day long!

To just throw open the borders like that for any developed nation would mean national suicide and would border on the verge of the criminally insane. Where are new immigrants going to sleep? What if they can't find jobs? What if jobs run out? How can local police deal with foreign criminals before the jails get packed like sardine can's? This would result in all the developed nations turning into undeveloped nations as conditions in New York would be the same as conditions in Lagos. It's definately Lose-lose.

But really it's a noble thought but sadly it would do a HELLOVA lot more harm than good, if any good could come out of this.
 
storealex said:
Dude, you do realise that we are talking millions of people here, don't you? Were Spain to implement your ideas, it's population would double in no time. Chaos would be the result.
Well, if the population in Europe doubles in no time, that wouldn't be that bad. After all, the domestic demand would finally boom, and international corporations will find back a reason to invest in Europe.

Maybe that's the solution to solve the unemployment issue actually...
 
Marla_Singer said:
Maybe that's the solution to solve the unemployment issue actually...

...except it would be a political suicide from any European government. I'm not sure that the white Europeans would really like to live as a racial minority. ;)
 
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