I need Mercenary Feedback

[Kael]

How about this: We make an ability that's available to every foot unit called "Bribe Mercenary" that's only usable when a Merc is nearby.

When used, a popup appears that let's you put in a certain amount of money. If it's enough (say, 100+the Merc's XP), the Merc joins your side. If not, the Merc might attack you instead. The chance of this would be based on the Merc's remaining health, to keep people from deliberately bribing Mercs in order to kill them.

Yeah, were I to redo it I would do it this way. But we are just talking about a blance refinement now, not a new feature.

 

[Kael]

Great, Hill Giants should show more cleavage is winning.

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

Yes, they should be capturable, after all the Loyalty spell is out there.

But the chance should be less than 50%, so that the units gradually dwindle form the map. And so Merc Ping Pong does ot happen too often. Maybe 30%? 40%?

 

[eekhoorn]

I'd say capturable, but not always. Anywhere between 25% and 75% is fine for me.

 

[felwar]

There needs to be some chance for them to die, otherwise they simply never go away. Loyalty spells to make sure the unit actually stays dead? That seems pretty backwards to me.

Anyone ever seen the "mercenaries never die" T-shirts? Yeah I think about that every time I build one.

 

[SchpailsMan]

I voted for "medium percent", I think 50% is enough to make ping-pong effects pretty uncommon (every time your mercenary is attacked, you'd only get 25% chance to capture it back since it has to pass the capture test twice in a row).

About the "new features we shouldn't discuss in this thread" I'll just mention that I think it would be cool if Mercs could be rush-bought even under civics that don't allow it. As far as I know it might be in already, I didn't try.

 

[puck11b]

Great, Hill Giants should show more cleavage is winning.

Well, there is no option for 'no opinion about capture rate'. I suppose I should have just not voted then, but it's my civic duty. I do the same thing on real election days by voting for various independents...

~p

 

[Yorgos]

None of the above. They should be capturable, if you pay them a specific amount of money after you defeat them (shield cost+2*XP). Conversion should also bring them back to full health.

 

[TheJopa]

I voted for medium chance. 50% would do. I see that mercenaries would surrender if odds are bad, and I like mechanic, but 100% is out of place.



If you would seek new mechanic, then attacking mercenary with over 90% oods would avoid combat and automaticly flip unit.

 

[marioflag]

How about this, a % chance to capture, but you have to pay them. To me this makes sense, you are in essence bribing them to turn their coat.
~p

I agree with this they are mercenaries they can change side only if they are paid.So you wouldn't use so much time these units.
About a percentage when it would be implementable?when unit has lost combat or when yor unit is near mercenary and you can bribe him?

 

[Dashwood]

I would enjoy needing to pay mercenaries to switch sides when they were defeated, but as it stands without further coding I think 40-50% is an appropriate ratio.

 

[feydras]

I think that mercs should be unique units that wander around and offer their services for a price. They should not be a genaric unit that can be built like they are now. Mercs could be like minor heroes and become available for hire when an inn is built in a city. Additional buildings (winery, brewery, gambling house, etc.) could increase the availability of mercs in a city. There could be several different unique mercs available and when they "die" they will have a chance to respawn (becoming available for hire again), but not for the leader who last lost them in battle. Mercs should have a higher upkeep than normal units and care should be taken to make each unique merc balanced.

Great idea but it fits much better for 'minor heroes' as you called them not mercenaries. I like all of your post except the part about them respawning elsewhere if killed. If dead they should stay dead. Except maybe 1 of them would have this strange quirk that when killed he would resurface elsewhere.

- feydras

 

[Oldfrt]

My view is:

a) They offer to join you because that way you let them live.
b) You kill them because you dont want them.

It was noted that many times mercs would fight to the death because they knew they could expect no quarter from the enemy... and even if captured at the end, they would be executed... that said, in proberbly just as many times they were "paid off" before the battle.....

hummm..

..... bribing units to disband?.... now that sounds interesting....

 

[Jono]

Yes, but not the honourable Hippus mercs...

 

[Mesix]

I've had the opportunity to see themercs in action more in my recent games and I have to say that they are more annoying than anything else. By the time Mercs start popping up and become available to build, I already have much better units in my army (several wearwolves for example). I find that every time I capture a merc I just hit the skull and crossbones button to kill him off. Something has to be done to make them more interesting or worthwile to have in your army.

 

[Oldfrt]

Just another thought.... is it possible to change individual units maintenance costs? If so, I would suggest raising the maintenance cost of mercs & dropping the build reqruirement...
Make them easy/free to get and costly to maintain and they will more suitably fit the desired niche... keep the pre-reqs for getting them the same though.
... will help countries under attack, they can raise troops quickly/easily, but it is going to cost them $$$$$$ to do so....

 

[Kael]

Just another thought.... is it possible to change individual units maintenance costs? If so, I would suggest raising the maintenance cost of mercs & dropping the build reqruirement...
Make them easy/free to get and costly to maintain and they will more suitably fit the desired niche... keep the pre-reqs for getting them the same though.
... will help countries under attack, they can raise troops quickly/easily, but it is going to cost them $$$$$$ to do so....

No easy way. It wouldnt be that hard to SDK a change in on that, but as in all things the hard part would be getting the AI to understand that certain units are costing him more.

 

[Maniac]

No easy way.

From Civ4UnitInfos.xml:

<iExtraCost>0</iExtraCost>

Adds gold in maintenance.

I guess the AI indeed wouldn't understand building lots of those is financial suicide, but that could be worked around by giving the disloyal mercenaries a chance to disappear every turn or after every battle, making it simply impossible to have lots of them at the same time. They would then serve the function of temporary troops in emergency situations.

For the human player to avoid using them as suicide troops, perhaps a gold cost could be deducted if they die in battle instead of leaving you naturally.
Edit: On second though, the chance that they defect to your enemy when defeated is incentive enough not to use them as suicide troops.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Perhaps a percent chance based on how many mercenaries you have. The more mercenaries there are, the easier it is to lose track of them. That, and it might be a nice mechanic.

 

[Oldfrt]

No easy way. It wouldnt be that hard to SDK a change in on that, but as in all things the hard part would be getting the AI to understand that certain units are costing him more.

Does it need to?

It obviously keeps track of unit costs at the moment and is capable of disbanding units if needed - I wonder how it decides what to disband? Is that based upon unit cost, or a combination of factors?