I spoke too soon...

[Vidszhite]

I finally quit at 3:30 a.m. when I saw a Great War unit vs. my rifelman. I can't beat this guy. Time to go back to the drawing board. The game was a lost cause anyway... once you get behind in science, the game loses its appeal.

By the time I met Rome, I was in the Renaissance era, and he was in the Industrial era, on Emperor.

By the time I conquered Rome, I had actually reached the Information era first, hadn't been able to tech steal him since the Atomic era. He was still using Great War units (but he had rocket artillery).

Rationalism for the win. Rifles vs. Great War is not runaway AI by any means.

 

[nokmirt]

something i don't know about?

Embarked they just look like transports ships.

 

[nokmirt]

I pirated an Aircraft Carrier.

They need to change that quickly it is stupid man.

 

[Harv72b]

Obvious solution to the late-game ship seizures is to just make all modern-era warships ranged attackers. It's closer to real-world accurate and it not only solves the issue of upgrading privateers or sea beggars to destroyers, it also works around the Ottomans' UA without nerfing it too badly (you still have the whole early- to mid-game to build a navy with it, and you still get the reduced costs for naval maintenance). Still slightly sucks that you'd pretty much lose most of the earlier promotions you'd earned for that ship, but such is life.

Great suggestion I saw someone make in another thread regarding the great admirals was to give them the ability to construct canals. Same idea as the citadel, except it provides a waterway to connect two bodies of water, or to connect a city to the sea.

 

[ShredZ]

Mine fields & sub nets! (acts like citadel)

or maybe they can improve trade income from any coastal city they are within range of.

(prolly already been thought of)

 

[CYZ]

Obvious solution to the late-game ship seizures is to just make all modern-era warships ranged attackers. It's closer to real-world accurate and it not only solves the issue of upgrading privateers or sea beggars to destroyers, it also works around the Ottomans' UA without nerfing it too badly (you still have the whole early- to mid-game to build a navy with it, and you still get the reduced costs for naval maintenance). Still slightly sucks that you'd pretty much lose most of the earlier promotions you'd earned for that ship, but such is life.

You already said why it's a bad idea: promotions.

It's also not that realistic actually. Destroyers are more or less close combat (at least compared to battleships).

 

[Harv72b]

You already said why it's a bad idea: promotions.

It's also not that realistic actually. Destroyers are more or less close combat (at least compared to battleships).

Yeah, certainly up through WWII at any rate (I keep forgetting that destroyers & battleships in the game run the gamut from WWI to present day).

Okay, other possibility: Leave it as is, but create a "scuttle" skill which prevents your ship from being captured. Probably wouldn't be worth it as a promotion, but if you tie it to a late-era policy or tech that would work. Or you could even make it a standard skill for all ships destroyers onward.

I'm trying to avoid the obvious solution of just removing the "prize ships" trait when a ship is promoted to destroyer because of the obvious semi-cheat: keep one or two privateers, use the rest of your navy to knock enemy ships down to a few HP, and then capture them with your outdated unit.

 

[Zaimejs]

A silly question... does it say when you build ships whether they are ranged or not? I still don't get the difference. I now know Frigates are ranged and Privateers are not.

The upgrade paths could be a little more clear, too. I had such fun taking a city with a Caravel. How cute is that? After playing for years with caravels being harmless little explorers (in Civ IV they could even transcend borders)... now they take cities!!?

I will try to continue playing the game. I just felt completely spent by 3:30 a.m. I just wanted Stockholm before I went to bed and I failed. He just keeps sending those ugly units. He's in this sweet spot where his UUs are effective. I am playing the Dutch. Just not a warmongering dude.

 

[smallfish]

Yeah, one of the promotions should say "May Not Melee Attack" if its ranged.

 

[smallfish]

They need to change that quickly it is stupid man.

They need to mod it. I would love a realism mod.

Moderator Action: 5 posts after this one are now in the moderation queue, further decision pending.
Edit: 6 posts deleted.

 

[Khadroth]

I don't think it's too broken, and kind of fun if you use it to your advantage.

 

[seasnake]

I will say that Ottomans has gotten a lot more fun to play as now. The UA is a lot more fun.

I've noticed the AI actively trying to flank or withdrawing from losing situations, so far i've been favorably impressed.

 

[nokmirt]

Obvious solution to the late-game ship seizures is to just make all modern-era warships ranged attackers. It's closer to real-world accurate and it not only solves the issue of upgrading privateers or sea beggars to destroyers, it also works around the Ottomans' UA without nerfing it too badly (you still have the whole early- to mid-game to build a navy with it, and you still get the reduced costs for naval maintenance). Still slightly sucks that you'd pretty much lose most of the earlier promotions you'd earned for that ship, but such is life.

Great suggestion I saw someone make in another thread regarding the great admirals was to give them the ability to construct canals. Same idea as the citadel, except it provides a waterway to connect two bodies of water, or to connect a city to the sea.

I'll just simply make it so privateers and sea beggars don't upgrade. So, in more modern times ships have to earn their promotions from that point. The other thing I could do is to have them upgrade into subs, rather than battleships. Still, I think just having that era of poracy end is a better option. Of course, I know pirates exist even now, obviously, but not nearly on a large enough scale to have the prize ships promo go into the modern day.

Capturing an aircraft carrier as a prize ship must be funny though. That reminds me of Under Siege.

 

[wandmdave]

The Great Admiral's "improvement" seems slightly weaker than a GG's; however in the right situation if you are willing to sacrifice it can make a huge difference. I've been playing on an archipelago map even when I bring in a massive naval force unless I have a city state or ally nearby it is crucial to take the first city without a hitch or supply becomes a big issue since you can't repair without returning to friendly waters unless every ship has the supply upgrade. If an initial assault is close but fails that mass heal could prevent a stalled invasion.

AI seems much better as well. My one minor complaint so far is that they still prioritize hitting workers a bit much. I suppose in the right situation you want to hit the workers to prevent them from making roads or fortresses to support an invasion but when the enemy is attacking from the sea almost exclusively and the workers are your own captured units on your territory where they can't build anything it seems a bit silly to ignore the frigates pounding on your city even if its only for a turn.

 

[Halcyan2]

I've actually found Sea Beggars and Privateers the two most powerful naval units in the game for their era. Once you tip the tide in terms of numbers with them you're basically going to double, triple your forces by the end of the war. I started with half a dozen Privateers and wound up with 16 ships at the end, including 4 Frigates and that doesn't count the number that were lost immediately after I captured them - AI loves shooting at weakened units. I think it's a matter of placing and where you engage with the Privateers more than anything else - near a city the unit you convert is sunk the next turn, out in the ocean and you pretty much get it for keeps.

Great Admirals are pretty mediocre to be fair, especially in comparison to the Great General.

I agree about Great Admirals being mediocre.

I have found their healing to be helpful with using Privateers (or any melee ships with the Ottomans). Capture a whole fleet of ships, then use your Great Admiral to heal the ships you used to attack and the newly captured ships.

 

[weregamer]

I just realized the "best" use of your spare Great Admiral, once you've used him as a bronze-age seagoing explorer: Mausoleum (wonder) + Reliquary (Religion enhancer trait) = 100 gold and 50 faith, with the occasional bonus of healing some ships.

 

[Veneke]

To be honest, the easiest solution would be to prevent Privateers/Sea Beggars from capturing post-Industrialization ships. Just give everything beyond the Ironclad an immunity. Problem solved. It's in the modern era anywhere where things start to get a little weird, so just cut them off there. You'll still have an armada of ships from a couple of Privateers but at least you won't have ridiculous things like captured battleships, aircraft carriers and submarines of all things.

That's actually pretty solid weregamer, though Reliquary is pretty poor in comparison to some of the other options.

 

[nokmirt]

To be honest, the easiest solution would be to prevent Privateers/Sea Beggars from capturing post-Industrialization ships. Just give everything beyond the Ironclad an immunity. Problem solved. It's in the modern era anywhere where things start to get a little weird, so just cut them off there. You'll still have an armada of ships from a couple of Privateers but at least you won't have ridiculous things like captured battleships, aircraft carriers and submarines of all things.

That's actually pretty solid weregamer, though Reliquary is pretty poor in comparison to some of the other options.

Until the devs fix it via code, I'll have to settle for the gold ole xml fix.

 

[Peacemongerer]

Yeah, Great Admirals were quite lacking... perhaps give them an ability like the GG's Citadel like a construct a coastal fortress or something that has a similar effect on naval units? Would be cool on some of these maps I play where my city has an island right off the coast.

 

[thadian]

For those who love sea beggars, it sucks having them used against you! I finished a game where the netherlands were an opponent and wow... Archipelago vs Naval Power's type of game, and those things started stealing other peoples unique ships and i couldn't mount a counternavy for the life of me.

I will have to learn my lesson and not wait until later to build a navy...