I sure hope you like paying for your mods

Chesko has spoken out about his experiences with the curated workshop.

Man, this whole thing blew up in his face.

As they say, that escalated quickly.

As a modder, I can understand what Chesko is going through and his decisions, even if I might not agree wholly. For one thing, I wouldn't have been able to handle the sort of abuse he apparently got from people badmouthing him.

Some folks have been saying this is a PR disaster, and at first I thought though they had a point they were exaggerating, but now that the modder behind some of the paid mods that were originally meant to be the spotlight stars of this experiment has said all this, I'm starting to think those exaggerations might not be so exaggerating after all.
 
So yet another issue has arisen, while there are free programs to make content for mods (such as 3D models), some games don't really support the free ones or people just don't use them. There are free licenses to use the product for personal or student use, but you have to buy them for like $1500 in the case of 3DS Max if you are using it to make money.

Which none of these modders who are or want to sell their games probably has.

http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrac..._want_money_time_to_get_a_commercial_licence/
 
I've since changed my mind on the issue since reading an article on Forbes, and reading blog posts on Nexus, about the whole thing.

The Forbes article made the case that this actually encourages Bethesda to release crappier or no DLC. Why add a flail to a game when you can encourage modders to do it and reap 75% of the profit?

I think the underlying idea is good but Valve and Bethesda have really screwed up implementation on this and burned a lot of goodwill in the community.
 
So, there will be a new version of SkyUI (5.0) - and it will be behind the paywall.

It is perfect to highlight the problem with this payment model.
Should the modder get money for his work? Yes, absolutely - from Bethesda, because he fixed their bloody game by adding standard PC menus!

But now the customer will pay the bill if people fix a game - and the devs who screwed the whole thing up even get money from it. Fantastic, that can only encourage people to make better games.
 
Spoiler :
"it's just money~~"


... is this guy for real?

On the plus side, apparently SkyUI is open sourced so it won't be too difficult for someone to make a new free version of it, and for something this crucial they will. I like how he even says that he thinks other mods will come to reply upon the new version and his changes... yeah right. Many modders want as many people as possible to use their mods, locking yours behind someone else's paywall is a great way to get even fewer people using it.
 
Apparently the chap in question is completely oblivious. Whilst the rage was in full torrent, he popped up to say that he was going to do a paid version and he wanted to get some hype going. I'd say that that was a major PR disaster, but I doubt he's even noticed what's he done.
 
I've heard that the main guy behind SkyUi was always kind of a dick / arrogant and way over his head / oblivious to users / something, to begin with; others have said his attitude isn't surprising, but most users don't notice since they just download mods instead of really getting themselves into the community.
 
It takes a special kind of clueless idiot to make that sort of announcement. Ricky Gervais aptly spoofed a very similar situation in The Office several years ago, where most of the people in the office are getting sacked, but Gervais's manager character is happy to announce that he's getting a promotion.
 
I actually support both the payment for mods AND the 75% cut for Bethesda/Steam.

For the mods themselves, they are giving their programming, artistic, and other such skills to you, the player. From what I have seen of some mods, they are far more than what we otherwise pay for DLC. Quite frankly, I feel it is almost criminal that mods HAVE NOT been paid so far for all of the great content they provide for users. The fear that mods are going to use this as a "quick cash grab" are fairly baseless. I would like to note that no game on earth is "held accountable" for fixing their buggy game on release. Game makers like Bethesda or Activision or whatever choose to patch their games because if they do not, then consumers will 1. return the product and 2. not buy this product, or any other product made by this provider in the future. If I'm a modder, I want you to sing my name from the mountain tops, and if my Skyrim Anime Hair mod has a glitch or two, I feel many mods would patch the mod so that people would continue purchasing my mod instead of watching people never purchase my mod again.

As for the second issue, the 75% cut for Bethesda/Steam/w.e, let's remind ourselves that modders are using Bethesda's base game to make their own mod. Some mods go further than others in modifying the game, but they are still using Skyrim's base game. Definitely improved, but they are using the work of a company who put alot of money into this title. Let us remember that companies are legally obligated to make as much profit as they can for their shareholders, not to provide us with hours of additional free content or to let modders make huge profits.

Modders can continue making mods for free if they so choose. Fans can choose to only download free mods. Modders can continue soliciting donations alone, but quite frankly that donate button has always been there and wasn't getting alot of clicks. Are there drawbacks to this? Yes, especially for the consumer, but at the same time, I do think that some mods are making content that they deserve to get paid for. At this point it is up to you on what mods you are willing to pay for, what sounds good and interesting, and what has good reviews. And, if at the end of the day the modders decide to take their talents and make their own new games because they aren't satisfied with their 25% cut, then that may be a major boon for independent gaming. Or maybe we'll see some really high quality mods so they can get more people willing to pay higher prices

You never expected video games for free in the first place, why should modders continue working for free and only "positive feedback" if they can actually make some good money for their good work?
 
Which is of course totally why Valve removed all the donation links, right? Because the modders should get money for their efforts, just not without Valve taking their cut.
 
I'm not against paid mods, but I don't think this has been implemented very well. I certainly don't think it's as bad as some people seem to consider it, but there are certainly some clearly identifiable problems, particularly with attribution/team efforts and refund policy (which is clearly insufficient).

I don't understand. If it's opt-in then wouldn't the modders, in essence consent to the 75% thing? If that breakdown isn't amenable to them they can always host their mods for free and request donations on patreon or whatever.

That seems doubtful. A portion of the 75% goes to the publisher, i.e. the copyright holder. If an option exists whereby the copyright holder can get paid for a modder's work, they're less likely to tolerate the modder accepting donations and thereby cutting them out of the sale.

I'm not sure 75% is really an exorbitant amount. There would be quite big costs involved in this for Valve, and they're only receiving a portion of that 75% anyway. And then there's an option to divert part of Valve's cut to a pre-approved organization like Nexus Mods. So depending on what the limitations are with regards to the pre-approved organizations, it could be that Valve isn't actually receiving anything out of these sales, let alone any profit, despite the fact that they're supporting the infrastructure for it all and providing free advertising. I reckon it's probably Bethesda that's pushed for this more than Valve - it's Bethesda's IP that's being augmented.
 
Ive stayed out of this for now because i sort of wanted to see what would happen before i made a judgement call. But now i think.......

This is a terrible idea. The whole nature of collaboration in mod making will always contain a massive amount of plagiarism. Some of it is recognised, and quite rightly, in the readme files, when modders have acknowledged other peoples work. Sometimes they dont. But then, it doesnt really matter if someone has taken a texture here or there and used it in their own work, because they are not then profiting from it. But paid for mods destroys that. Modders will start putting barriers up and be less likely to collaborate.

Having said that, i think there might be a way to allow genuinely good modders a financial reward. Some have mentioned the donate feature, which is one way. Another might be a greenlight sort of function. So if enough people "vote" for a mod when its free, once it gets over a certain threshold (say 5,000 votes), then it becomes eligible for the pay system. The free for all they have gone for will not work IMO and it actually poisons the community against each other in its current format.
 
Oblivion is still going nine years later because it was just an amazing game, folks. Don't listen to those people that say it was due to the modding community, which we're totally not trying to destroy right now!

Spoiler :
Screw the community! We want money!
 
Personally I don't really care about the 25% share for modders. I'm not qualified to judge percentages obviously, but if turning this whole thing into a commercial venture Beth and Valve clearly have a right to a big cut as game creator and distributor.

My fears are entirely to do with what this will do to modding as a whole.
 
I've since changed my mind on the issue since reading an article on Forbes, and reading blog posts on Nexus, about the whole thing.

The Forbes article made the case that this actually encourages Bethesda to release crappier or no DLC. Why add a flail to a game when you can encourage modders to do it and reap 75% of the profit?

I think the underlying idea is good but Valve and Bethesda have really screwed up implementation on this and burned a lot of goodwill in the community.

They'd have less incentive to put patches out, imagine playing skyrim without the unofficial patchs because they're behind a paywall.
 
My fears are entirely to do with what this will do to modding as a whole.
Same here, saying that as somebody who modded myself (see my downloads right here on CivFanatics!). The problem to me is this: Wyre on Cathedral vs Parlor Modding.

Paid mods will shift the community towards "parlour modding" which results in much smaller scale modded experiences - and I think that's the reason why here on CivFanatics, the modiquette explicitly says that people are allowed to use other modder's content as long as you attribute the original source.

Who would have thought, a CivFanatics member prefers the CivFanatics modding approach! ;)
 
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