ICNES II: A New Order

[ThomAnder]

Icmancin, can i ask how the hell the japanese even manage to land on korea with the spanish fleet still in the area, let alone RESUPPLY themselves there, and did you take into account EP spent for logistics? Furthermore, why would the KOREANS support the JAPANESE?? (especially after that invasion in the 16th century). They were a traditional enemy of the japanese. they NEVER sided with them voluntarily. And under the qing they were more of a vassal with domestic policy up to them anyway. About mongolian uprising, i find it funny how you so support nations instigating rebels while ignoring the situation at hand and the attempts by the original nation at appeasing them. And another thing, i said for my 21 divisions to reinforce the north if the russians attack, where did THAT go?

 

[Luckymoose]

Think it would be a hard job for 21 divisions to defend the entire northern border.So your forces were spread out.

 

[ThomAnder]

No he didn't take into account those forces AT ALL. According to him they were still at beijing. And the russians invaded with only 20 cossack divisions anyway. Besides, i still question why my attempts to appease the mongolians failed whereas the russians were so successful.

About the Evenks... I'm not even going to comment on that one. Ugh.

 

[Cuivienen]

Mostly, I have difficulty understanding how the Japanese navy that survived Shanghai managed to ferry such a large force over through a Spanish fleet five times their size.

 

[Israelite9191]

Woohoo! Loved that update! So... no Arkhangel'sk eco center?

IC:

To the Qianlong Emperor

Her Imperial Majesty believes that peace would be best for both of our nations, especially yours. Oure terms for peace are: a) borders according to the attatched map including the Russian acquisition of all of Outer Manchuria, the Shan-Dong Peninsula, the Yangtze Delta region, and the port of Xiamen, b) the immediate payment of three million rubles (3 eco points), c) the future payment of one million rubles per year (1 eco point a year), and d) the signing of a twenty-five year pact of non-agression.

Spoiler :

Signed and Sealed, Her Imperial Majesty Czarina Catherine II the Great of the House of Romanov,
Heiress to Rome, Mother of Her Country, Guardian of the Holy Orthodox Faith, and Empress of All the Russias​

EDIT: @Thomander- The Evenks were all me.

 

[alex994]

Lurker's Comment: Kill Russia! Call upon the Chinese People to resist the heinous Japanese and Russians! The Great Patriotic War! Do I need to mention the absurdity of the acquisition of Shan-dong and the Yangtze Delta? And for the record, you got a large piece of Inner Manchuria as well. In fact, one must ask how the Russians managed to supply so many soldiers in the Far East...

 

[Israelite9191]

Local support, I had stired up the Evenks already.

 

[ThomAnder]

do you know the population of Evenks at that time inside my territory is????

 

[Israelite9191]

Practically everything in Outer Manchuria I believe.

 

[ThomAnder]

i'd like to see your sources. and i asked for a number too, AFAIK their number is miniscule.

 

[Icmancin]

1. The Japanese Army and Fleet war eradicated when they left Shanghai. They rebuilt it using eco.
2. The Russians attacked with 35 Cossack Divisions. More were trained this year.
3. 4 Eco of Logistics was put in by the Russians
4. The Russians were stirring up the Evenks last turn, bribing them, promising power and gifts more than what the Qing were giving them. The Evenks weren't giving any major priviledges. They were also of the Northern Language group, Manchu is in the South-Western group.
5. The Spanish fleet presumed that all Japanese ships were destroyed. However, new ones were constructed. They sailed North, between Honshu and Hakkaido and landed North of Pusan, parallel to Taegu.
6. You couldn't contact the Mongols in time. The Russian invasion started very early in the year and they began to grow restless with you.
7. Your troops did move to try to counter them. There are 2000 Miles between where the Russians attacked and where Beijing is situated. Transporting 210 000 troops over two thousand miles in a month? Not likely. It was also Winter which would have hindered your progress further.
8. They were forced to turn back when the Japanese attacked Korea at the same time that Russia began the Mongolia campaign. The mongols never got your gifts and therefore supported the Russians. Your Beijing Army had to retreat because tehre were Mongol skirmishers and the russian Cossacks that outnumbered you, out trained you and were better equiped.
9. like I said, the Russians were stirring up the Evenks since last year. They took the oppritunity to rise up when the russians attack Manchuria. The Evenks are related to the Manchus but are not Manchu themselves. There were also practically NO GARRISONS in the Evenki territory.
10. The Japanese treated the Koreans with the utmost respect ever possible to give which won them over. They promised them a free state NOT a tributary state as they are in now under the Qing.

 

[ThomAnder]

great, just throw historical accuracy down the can. why would the koreans trust the japanese is why i'm asking first of all. secondly, i asked why were the spanish ships idle seeing korea being invaded. thirdly you say i have to cross 2000 miles to reinforce mongolia, and how many miles do the cossacks have to cross? and i asked for logistics about the japanese, not russians.

Transporting 210 000 troops over two thousand miles in a month?

how is it a month... the campaign lasted the whole year

The Russians attacked with 35 Cossack Divisions. More were trained this year.

In 1764 the elect Cossacks and their families numbered 176,886; the Cossack helpers and their families numbered 198,295.

The Evenks weren't giving any major priviledges. They were also of the Northern Language group, Manchu is in the South-Western group.

the evenks are almost non-existant in the vladistorck/outer manchuria region. The treaty of Nerchinsk ensured that.

You couldn't contact the Mongols in time. The Russian invasion started very early in the year and they began to grow restless with you.

Yes, winter didn't halt them at all, did it...

The Japanese treated the Koreans with the utmost respect ever possible to give which won them over. They promised them a free state NOT a tributary state as they are in now under the Qing.

If i promise a random house in japan to become the new shogun would they throw their support for me?

You couldn't contact the Mongols in time

So an army moves faster than a messenger now

 

[Icmancin]

1. Why? Because it is easy to believe false promises without lie detectors. If you were under grounded and weren't allowed to talk to the other kids but all of a sudden a big ugly biker kid comes up and says 'I can get you talking to the rest of the world if you help me take care of your parents that are holding you down' would you do it? So this kid has picked on you before. Would do it to get more freedom? They were promised freedom and aid and were treated like Kings to win them over.

Cheju Island was not used as a Naval Base by the Spanish. Okinawa was. I forgot to include it in the map. However, Okinawa has a considerable distance between itself and the Sea of Japan. The Spanish would have been unaware of the Japanese movements since they happened in the North and landed on the east Coast of Korea, not visible from Cheju Island. Anless they had U-2s or submarines they WERE NOT under the impression that teh Japanese could undertake ANY type of naval operation. They did and they DID NOT get caught.

The Cossacks were in place before this year. The Regulars were placed before this year. The Russians deployed soldiers there LAST YEAR to defend the country and it turns out that they had to be used to attack the Qings. How many miles? Maybe 50 at the most.

Japanese had their logistics payed for.

 

[ThomAnder]

-You didn't comment about the lack of evenks to cause any sizable rebellions in outer manchuria.

-Why are you under the assumption that all vassals are discontent and want independence at first chance? Have the notion that these vassals are content and happy with their current way of life happened to you..? And there is a difference between who to accept aid from versus who to rebell against. fight with japan, who got most of their fleet eliminated, to rebel against china and their enormous manpower... hmm i wonder which i should pick.

-You're still not responding why the spanish didn't do anything AFTER the japanese landed on Korea. The japanese fleet should've been decimated again.

 

[Icmancin]

how is it a month... the campaign lasted the whole year
The 210 000 Soldiers would have had to reroute midway through to fidn where the Russians were to defend the place against them so you don't lse anymore land. They were very mobile.



In 1764 the elect Cossacks and their families numbered 176,886; the Cossack helpers and their families numbered 198,295.
The Imperial Cossacks are a military unit comprised of mostly Cossacks. Cossacks train these divisions.

the evenks are almost non-existant in the vladistorck/outer manchuria region. The treaty of Nerchinsk ensured that.
Elaborate.



Yes, winter didn't halt them at all, did it...
Turkestan is desert. They attacked in Winter to allow for a cooler climate. Russians are good winter fighters anyway but it doesn't snow in the desert, the climate cools down.


If i promise a random house in japan to become the new shogun would they throw their support for me?
If you would commit to it ansd show them. Japan was already fighting a war with you. They simply told them they were kciking teh snot out of you in addition to promising independence. They believed them since they peppered them and souunded like they were telling the truth. False promises, tales of victory. I'd have taken my gun out to fight the Qings.

So an army moves faster than a messenger now
It was 1000 Miles to Mongolia. In Winter. With lots of money and gifts. A lone messanger? You couldn't hold any Hunts or have any marriages either because the state was at war.

 

[Icmancin]

I was on the knowledge that the Evenks still inhabited Outer Manchuria. They should have been sizeable to create at least one rebellion, coupled with the Russian Army and lack of Chinese garrisons, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD SOME SUCCESS!
It wasn't the nobles that wanted the independence. It was the people of Korea! THEY took up arms against the Chinese to get independence! They would have installed a competent leader. There were no nobles, just citizens. And the Chosons were MING lovers. Korea was INVADED by the Qing and FORCED into becomeing a tributary state. Even though it wa just citizens do you not think te Chosons were pissed off at the Qing too?
The Spanish didn't KNOW THAT THEIR FLEET EXISTED!

 

[Wubba360]

ice, thom is asking why spain did not take action after the first invasion of japanese ships into korea, and why the spanish did not destroy any ships after it was clear the japs were back

 

[Icmancin]

Sigh. I am trying to tell you that the Spanish didn't know they were back. They struck SECRETLY! The Spanish saw no ships. The Spanish didn't know that they had ships. The Spanish captured Cheju Island but did not garrison it. That was Okinawa. they had no satellites or telescopes and anything to have any inclination that Japan had:

Rebuilt their fleet.
Sailed inbetween Honshu and Hakkaido.
Landed on the Eastern side of Korea (as to not alert anyone on Cheju Island)
And pushed inland.

The Spaniards thought they got rid of ALL the Japanese ships after Shanghai.

And anyway, the Koreans sympathized with the Japanese so food and facilities owuld not have been a problem.


Does ANYBODY CARE that AUSTRIA has OVERTHROWN the POPE?! Or that Saxony and the Palatinate are striking at the rest of the GERMAN LEAGUE with Austrian BACKING? Or that BRITAIN is TAKING OVER INDIA? One place at a time?!

 

[The Farow]

Nice Update!!!

From Palatinate of the Rhine
To Austria

We recognize you as the successor to the Holy Roman Empire and believe you are truely the second reich.

From Palatinate of the Rhine
To Saxony

We congratulate you on your victories in the German Minor states.

Thormander, it is just a game. Icmancin tried his best to stay with historical accuracy and what is done is done.

 

[Luckymoose]

Does ANYBODY CARE that AUSTRIA has OVERTHROWN the POPE?! Or that Saxony and the Palatinate are striking at the rest of the GERMAN LEAGUE with Austrian BACKING? Or that BRITAIN is TAKING OVER INDIA? One place at a time?!

Not the very least.Stats?