Idea: Castile instead of Spain

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Does a Modern Italy make that much sense? Post 1700 has hardly been the Italian peninsula's glory days, and while post unified Italy was more important geo-politically than Spain, it never reached the state of the great powers - even with Mussolini and WW2. And I don't think anyone really wants Italy represented as a fascist Civ. Garibaldi Italy would be a possibility, but a bit lack lustre IMO, and would struggle to make my top 5 (or even top 10) just in Europe for the modern era tbh. Stretching the eras timelines to breaking point might allow a renaissance Florentine Italy - but that flourished simultaneously with Spain (or even slightly earlier), so the transition from Spain to Italy would make no sense here.

As someone who has wanted Italy for years, it would be a shame if we don't get it now that civ switching is a thing that makes it more likely. Having a line of Romans>Florence/Tuscany>Italy would be the dream.

I do understand the sentiments of how boring it would if only based off of modern Italy, but as you mentioned Garibaldi Italy could work. He could also be tied to Modern South American civs as well.

 

[Josephias]

Regarding modern Italy, more that its geopolitical influence. I consider modern Italy a candidate due to its industrialization level (making into G7), and its cultural relevance in the last centuries, be it trough industrial design (brands), entertainment (from opera to cinema), lyfestile -at least pretended- (dolce vita), food, and other pop culture memes.
It is true they did not pack a lot of political or military punch, and they have its shadows nowadays, but still everyone knows what is a Ferrari or that fetuccini is a type of food, and that Armani makes clothes. And at least knows the names Verdi, Vivaldi or Sergio Leone. Probably, as this recognition is more due to people that due to an specific policy, but leaderless civs being a thing now, I think they are plausible (plus, they fill the mediterranean slot that otherwise could be empty)

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That is why a Rome > Spain > Italy , specially if there are no Italian states to fill the gap in Exploration Age, is a very reasonable path: there is always been a lot of back and forth between the two peninsulae.
(although Venice presenting as a candidate is likely, and I’m betting on Marco Polo as one of the two leaders for crossroads of the world)

Goths > Spain > France is what you could call the “monarchy” path. Pelayo is told to descend for the Visigoth kings line that ruled the peninsula before they were displaced by the moors, and then the current Bourbon line is the reason the fleur-de-lys is placed over spain’s coat of arms.

The Rome - Spain path is particularly good because the Gothic kingdom in Spain tried very hard to maintain as much of the Roman legal and administrative structure as they could. See Inheritance of Rome, a book that catalogued all the 'Roman Hold-Overs' in the 6th - 9th centuries in Spain, France, and the rest of the old western Empire. That makes it easy in game terms to slide right over the Goths and have a direct Rome - Spain transition.

 

[ehecatzin]

To play devil's advocate in this case and to be honest, Spain has the distinction of having kinda pathetic history from Napoleon's era until 1970s so it's not like we lose major player of 19th and 20th centuries who played a major role in great wars and adventures of those eras That may be the reason why devs didn't bother with modern Spain and focused on its glorious medieval and early modern eras - and we have many better slot uses than Castille.

At least that's what I took out from reading about the trainwreck of Spanish political history post Napoleon, its impotence against former colonies, inability to industrialize or get onto the train of new colonialism, insignificance in global affairs, civil war and then obscurantism of theocratic Franco regime. At several points in 20th century Spain had lower gdp per capita than several Eastern Europen countries and even its own colonies. And I'm not even talking about Czechoslovakia and Argentina but at one point Poland and Mexico lol.

On the other hand, I have always respected Spanish ability to somehow emerge as the "normal" Western country with high economic, political and social standards - after all this mediocrity and misery.

Take my angry up vote. haha

I guess if anything it puts Spain in a good light during Exporation, being relevant super early and staying relevant to until the end of it, I'm hoping that with unique civic trees and such, it at least feels like starting exploration with Castille, but ending the Era as Spain.

that said, I'll miss Mexico vs Spain....but I guess there will be plenty of America and France to go around.

 

[Ordnael]

Spain -> Brazil is also reasonable if Portugal isn't in the game.

That is not reasonable, that's insulting to the champion nation of the exploration age. This Spain first must end, specially in this multi layered CIV VII where I would like to start with the Romans, then the Visigoths and finally Portugal. Like some of you pointed out, correctly, Spain did no exploring, Spain didn't exist, it was the separate kingdoms that will form Spain that did the exploration.

 

[RedCourtJester]

That is not reasonable, that's insulting to the champion nation of the exploration age. This Spain first must end, specially in this multi layered CIV VII where I would like to start with the Romans, then the Visigoths and finally Portugal. Like some of you pointed out, correctly, Spain did no exploring, Spain didn't exist, it was the separate kingdoms that will form Spain that did the exploration.

1. Goths are going to be an antiquity civ; the Mausoleum is an antiquity wonder (and Theodoric, if anyone, is a thoroughly acceptable indicator that we are looking at the unified Ostrogothic/Visigothic kingdoms as the "Goths"). Portugal is almost assuredly going to be an exploration civ.

2. Maya -> Aztec -> Mexico.
Aksum -> Songhai -> Buganda.
Khmer -> Majapahit -> Siam.
Han -> Silla/Joseon -> Meiji.
Spain will likely have the preferred historic pathway to Mexico, though assuredly Brazil will be one of the easier pathways. More importantly, Brazil will likely proceed from the Inca at launch, which is arguably more offensive.