Idea: Great Prophet required to found a religion

[0100010]

A great prophet should be required an expended in order to found a religion.

This would mean that it would require more strategic planning if you have to get the tech AND get a GP to found a religion. That is always how I envisioned religions anyway, some great spiritual leader (the GP) started a movement.

For the player, it should be chosen from among the list of religions currently available to the player. (and random from the available list for the AI of course)

A religion is only considered available if the player has the pre-req tech and it has not yet been founded. If limited religions is turned on, the player must also have never founded a religion. If the choose religion option is turned on, than all not yet founded religions are considered available.

This also means it's possible for the player or AI to be the first to get a religion founding tech but unable to use it just yet until they get the GP, and thus someone else might get the tech/GP faster and steal their chance away. This will put some more variations in the founding times of religions. I don't think the player should get a GP for free simply for getting the tech.

Should be a toggle-able game option: "Only Great Prophets can found religions"

 

[GoUtes53]

I realy like this idea and think it has much merit. What say you, Afforess?

 

[Killtech]

idea is not bad. but in the case that you need a GP for founding a religion you should be able to build the holy site without another one - just like an ordinary world wonder.

 

[Afforess]

I realy like this idea and think it has much merit. What say you, Afforess?

I like it too.

Okay, so it's added to my modding todo list for 1.7. Here's the list (not in any particular order) so far:

• It's the Economy, Stupid!
• Fractional XP
• Great Prophets Founding Religions
• More AI tweaks?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There is already a mod out there which implements this idea so you could look into pillaging/reusing that code. The only problem I see with this option is that GP don't come along until after two or three RoM religions have been founded so what is this going to do to the time-line? If you also have AAranda's religions then it is five or six religions founded before a GP comes along.

 

[Afforess]

There is already a mod out there which implements this idea so you could look into pillaging/reusing that code. The only problem I see with this option is that GP don't come along until after two or three RoM religions have been founded so what is this going to do to the time-line? If you also have AAranda's religions then it is five or six religions founded before a GP comes along.

One or two of the religion techs could give a free Great Prophet.

 

[0100010]

At present the Egyptian's UB and the Ceremonial Altar provide slots to assign priests to on early buildings If that's insufficient, perhaps adjust additional early building to allows a priest specialist. Perhaps the Idol Shrine and/or Mystic's Hut.

I prefer still needing a great prophet to build the holy city though. Don't they NOT count against the wonder limit currently? I wouldn't want the holy shrines to become wonders, then you are yet again taking away a usage for the Great Prophets.

Though while were on the subject of increasing the usefulness of Great Prophets, how about allowing them to also become "super missionaries" A new build function in which, they auto spread your state religion to X nearby cities which don't yet have it all at once. Including ignoring things such as those nearby cities being an enemy city or if its barbarian or not having right of passage or perhaps even ignoring the "no non-state religion" restriction. It would make these guys very useful to someone trying for a religious victory.

 

[kormer]

I like this IF its done in conjunction with some other change to slow the spread of religion down. As it stands, the first religion usually encompasses the entire globe and the only civs to ever adapt another religion are the ones to found a new one. Relying on GP's just means you'll be waiting longer between religion founds, further perpetuating the problem of a single religion's dominance.

While we're on the subject, here's one more really crazy idea: Make the holy wonder buildable once the religion has spread to a preset percentage of the globe. Since you're already going to require a GP for founding the religion, this just adds some hammers for missionary work in place of using another GP, which would still be an option anyways.

 

[Killtech]

I like this IF its done in conjunction with some other change to slow the spread of religion down. As it stands, the first religion usually encompasses the entire globe and the only civs to ever adapt another religion are the ones to found a new one. Relying on GP's just means you'll be waiting longer between religion founds, further perpetuating the problem of a single religion's dominance.

i think that this change already goes in the direction you want: great prophets usually spawn much later than early religion techs are discovered and they spawn more or less simultaneously in different civs around the world - so the only thing one would need to do is ensure that at the time the first prophets spawn there are already enough religion techs discovered.

however the non-missionary religion spread could use some rethinking: a city that already has a religion should still have a chance for another religion to spread without missionaries. this chance should shrink considerably with each religion it has. at the other hand it should increase with city size, trade routes and maybe specific civics and nationality (i.e. state religion influences all cities with that nationality and increases their chance to spread a this religion).

furthermore the problem with restricted religious spread is strongly connected with the fact that the AI never uses missionaries to spread its religion beyond its borders.

 

[os79]

Wait! Stupid me. I forgot something when I made suggestions earlier.

Why not make it even simpler.

Remove a Tech's capacity to force a Holy City. Instead, give a missionary a capacity to both spread and cause a Holy City for the first time. fter that, just spreading...

And for these few religions that give you free Missionary, you get to have two missionaries for free but the first one is for settingup a Holy City, then second one is for your usual free spreading.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I prefer still needing a great prophet to build the holy city though. Don't they NOT count against the wonder limit currently? I wouldn't want the holy shrines to become wonders, then you are yet again taking away a usage for the Great Prophets.

In standard BTS they are world wonders but having a limit causes problems when a religion is found in a city which already has its limit of wonders and so you can never build the holy shrine. That is why they are not world (or national) wonders any mor and why you do not get the movie when you build the holy shrine.

I like this IF its done in conjunction with some other change to slow the spread of religion down. As it stands, the first religion usually encompasses the entire globe and the only civs to ever adapt another religion are the ones to found a new one. Relying on GP's just means you'll be waiting longer between religion founds, further perpetuating the problem of a single religion's dominance.

I would actually prefer if religions all spread very quickly to all cities with trade contacts ie via trade routes "World Religions" did this and it worked well I thought. I think RoM 0.something tried it that way to. It did mean that there was almost no need for missionaries.

 

[vamperium]

In standard BTS they are world wonders but having a limit causes problems when a religion is found in a city which already has its limit of wonders and so you can never build the holy shrine. That is why they are not world (or national) wonders any mor and why you do not get the movie when you build the holy shrine.



I would actually prefer if religions all spread very quickly to all cities with trade contacts ie via trade routes "World Religions" did this and it worked well I thought. I think RoM 0.something tried it that way to. It did mean that there was almost no need for missionaries.

In regards to this, would there be a way to model religions at war or bad relations, to slow the spread down? If two nations with different state religions were at war I'd doubt the people would want to move there.

 

[Killtech]

In standard BTS they are world wonders but having a limit causes problems when a religion is found in a city which already has its limit of wonders and so you can never build the holy shrine. That is why they are not world (or national) wonders any mor and why you do not get the movie when you build the holy shrine.

ok, in this case make the holy shrine an ordinary building that can only be build in a holy city. i just don't like needing 2 GP for each religion.

just thought that it would make sense to increase religious spread of a religion that has build its holy shrine too - in addition to my prior concept of religious spreading.

 

[konradcabral]

I like it too.

Okay, so it's added to my modding todo list for 1.7. Here's the list (not in any particular order) so far:

• It's the Economy, Stupid!
• Fractional XP
• Great Prophets Founding Religions
• More AI tweaks?

What about Election Mod?

 

[Afforess]

What about Election Mod?

I work on that whenever I get free time. At the rate I get requests, that's approximately never.

Don't worry, I haven't abandoned it though. Good things take time. I take a really long time. Finish the syllogism for yourself.

 

[Hydromancerx]

What about the Flammability Mod?

 

[Grathocke]

Maybe something that could also be considered is the ebb and flow of religions. Over time there could be the chance for religions to gain influence (culture), or to lose it. Also, if a city has more than one religion, the people might get a little uppity and kick one of them out of their town.

Temples, etc, give bonuses. Maybe those can also increase or decrease with random events. At least I've never seen this happen before.

 

[JanusTalaiini]

Good things take time. I take a really long time. Finish the syllogism for yourself.

It's an invalid syllogism; fallacy of undistributed middle term.

Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[zappara]

Eurebius World Religion - Revival mod had feature where great prophets founded religions. I didn't carry over that feature when I first time tweaked RoM's religions - can't remember if it required SDk changes... but if it did, those could be grabbed from its source files.

 

[E_Pluribus_Unum]

Eurebius World Religion - Revival mod had feature where great prophets founded religions. I didn't carry over that feature when I first time tweaked RoM's religions - can't remember if it required SDk changes... but if it did, those could be grabbed from its source files.

Eurebius World Religion has beatiful ideas/features. It will be great to merge into RoM, preferaby an option of AND. (I know second point is quite hard because the bulk of changes, but dare to dream )

In previous topics Eurebius mentioned that he wanted to port EWR to BtS. I hope this happens, and then you migrate it into RoM/AND.