Ideas and Development--Story NES

[das]

Alright then! The skeleton of the history is in existance. Now we need to add innards, meat and skin (and anything else we might have missed).

Firstly, we need to design the Reichskultur. I still believe in some Rome-like, which may be considered ironic by those who observed my debates with Xen. Adjustments will obviously need to be made, specifically (as far as religion goes) in the direction of the Moon, the Sea and perhaps matriarchy but that is a bit of a divergence from the original plan. Over time ofcourse an Emperor Cult or an Empress Cult will emerge, alongside with the delusions of imperial grandeur and arrogance towards the yet-unassimilated barbarians.

Secondly, we need to determine the other nations. We only have a definite idea of the Gulf, and some vague ones of the north of the southeastern continent, the western Mainland and the southwestern continent. We probably needn't go into too much detail, but still. Personally I believe that there will be a few small vassal nations here and there, but there still will be moderately strong powers that survived the War of the Last Coalition as the Imperial leadership decided that destroying them would not be cost-efficient... unless ofcourse they get uppity again. I suspect that the Western Mainland, for one, will survive, though it will be weakened, particularily losing its fleet (officially...). Most of the southwestern continent will probably be occupied or vassalized, but the south of it might retain independence as well (several nations there, at the very least two). Southern central is doomed from the start, it won't even live to the Last Coalition. North of the eastern will fall, center will probably be vassalized with ongoing guerrila wars as it resembles a huge Vietnam to me. South - probably independent again? The Southern Hemisphere will probably as often in OTL be judged as not worth the effort in most cases.

Thirdly, the islands and the Far North. Most islands will be Imperial, but some might be pirate havens. As I said, piracy will be a very important part of this world. Alternatively there might be secret rebel bases there, and ofcourse primitive tribes. The Far North is dominated by barbarians, with occasional Imperial outposts and disgraced elderly generals and NK-created characters wandering by.

 

[Swissempire]

THere should be a number of Genoa like places that are taken by Teh Empire. And there should be a Celtic Culture

 

[das]

Nein-nein-nein! Although ofcourse some city-states will be captured; hell, most of the early Gulf empires will be rather like overblown city-states, a la Athens.

 

[Israelite9191]

I believe I miss communicated. I was immagining the far north having settlements the size of Alaska's major settlements (Anchorage, Seward, Fairbanks, Juneau, Sitka, etc.). Large enough that they have significant infrastructure for economy (mainly oil, I presume, since we will definately have the need for it although originally whale, fish, and furs) but not large enough to be called real centers of population.

As for the matrileniality/matriarchiality, just put the pieces together. First, we have a society where the men are absent for long periods of time, leaving the women to develop the society at home. This situation is similar to the Mongol Empire in which the Mongol men were constantly at away at warleaving the women behind, which in turn was similar to traditional Mongol society where the men where always off hunting and the women were left in the village. In this case the women became leaders of the villages and later the administrators of the Mongol Empire in place of the men. In fact, some of the Mongol empresses were known to give imperial edicts WITHOUT their husbands' name, only their's.

Later on, as the super-patrilineal/patriarchal Han society infiltrated the Mongol Empire figures like Kublai Khan emerged who replaced the femal rulers with themselves as the male rulers. In this world their is no dominant culture to outshine our Gulf culture, meaning nothing to cause a shift to a patrilineal/patriarchal society. Also, while the settling down of the Mongol hordes may have eventually lead to the replacement of the de facto Mongol female rulers by the de jure male rulers, we do not have that in this society. Just like the constant of having the men always gone hunting lead to femine dominated civics in (pre-empire) Mongol society, so too would the men being constantly at sea lead to feminine dominated civics. Furthermore, while other areas of Mongol society where dominated by men, this was because of the nomad lifestyle. In our Gulf there is a settled society.

It is also interesting to note that similar female dominated societies emerged in the Americas and Africa in similar situations where the men were never around.

As for the islands, I would imagine that the isolated islands in the Empty Ocean would develop Hawai'i like, partially at least. Settled hundreds of years ago (perhaps by island hopping and long distance travellers from the southern islands who favored ocean going ships rather than military ships as the Gulfers do) they would have developed as independent islands in a semi-co-operative, semi-feudal nature with a pretty much unified culture eventually leading to a unified kingdom.

Here is where the situation gets a little un-Hawai'in. Due to its position in isolation from the rest of the world it would likely remain independent like OTL Hawai'i, but unlike OTL Hawai'i, it would continue to be independent due to its relative waste for the empire and difficulty in securing. It would be possible that a brief colonization might occur, but I see this being short lived since the natives could easily revolt and even with more advanced naval technology the islands would be too far away for much to be done about it cost-efficiently. While OTL Hawai'i became a center for immigration due to the sugar industry, these islands might become a sort of haven for people trying to escape the wars ravaging the rest of the world. I know this is a really small corner of the world, but I still thought I might mention this.

I was thinking that for the name of our empire something combining a few words from a couple languages to the effect of "Land of Kings" or "Land of Empires" would be appropriate. Similar to China calling themselves "The Middle Kingdom," since there is no other power, there is no need to calle themselves something special. An idea I have would be somtheing along hte lines of "Taretz Immerachim," a combination of Hebrew "eretz" for land and "melachim" for kings and Latin "terra" for earth and "imperator" for emporer.

OK, earlier I was on a library computer so I couldn't get the calendar as I would have liked to. Now that I am FINALLY on my own computer (at 2:30 AM) I can get that calendar.

 

[das]

This situation is similar to the Mongol Empire in which the Mongol men were constantly at away at warleaving the women behind, which in turn was similar to traditional Mongol society where the men where always off hunting and the women were left in the village. In this case the women became leaders of the villages and later the administrators of the Mongol Empire in place of the men. In fact, some of the Mongol empresses were known to give imperial edicts WITHOUT their husbands' name, only their's.

Later on, as the super-patrilineal/patriarchal Han society infiltrated the Mongol Empire figures like Kublai Khan emerged who replaced the femal rulers with themselves as the male rulers.

Um... Empire? Imperial edicts? The Mongol Empire rose under Genghis Khan, who, as I am informed, happened to be a man. Even then, it wasn't an empire per se. As for Kublai Khan, again, he didn't change anything in that regard, and he also consistantly resisted Chinese cultural assimilation. The matriarchality in the steppes indeed existed, but was fairly limited.

But the Gulf civilization is NOT a steppe one - it is a Mediterranean one, that is the problem. The only lasting matriarchate in the Mediterranean was the Minoan one, but that was largely an anomaly.

I would imagine that the isolated islands in the Empty Ocean would develop Hawai'i like,

Its a bit easier with the Polynesians, really...

I was thinking that for the name of our empire something combining a few words from a couple languages to the effect of "Land of Kings" or "Land of Empires" would be appropriate. Similar to China calling themselves "The Middle Kingdom," since there is no other power, there is no need to calle themselves something special. An idea I have would be somtheing along hte lines of "Taretz Immerachim," a combination of Hebrew "eretz" for land and "melachim" for kings and Latin "terra" for earth and "imperator" for emporer.

Again, lets not complicate things with adding in the Hebrew culture - lets just leave it vaguely Graeco-Roman with talassocratic elements.

Furthermore, there are other powers, it only begun defeating them all a few centuries ago, and some still linger on.

 

[Israelite9191]

Number Name- Length
1 Avson- 30 days
2 Zivinru- 29 days
3 Shovuom- 30 days
4 Tzuma'idi- 29days
5 Uza- 30 days
6 La'elu- 29 days
7 Oishtunim- 30 days
8 Balsh'van- 29 days
9 Saslevu- 30 days
10 Yeiveso- 29 days
11 Desmat- 30 days
12 Sherada- 30 days, only in leap years
13 Rada- 29 days

This calender is based off of the Hebrew calendar since it is the most accurate completely lunar calendar I know of. Chinages I mad include realining it to make spring rather than fall the start of the year and re-naming the months. For simplicity's sake year 1 for this calendar will be equivalent to the OTL Hebrew calendar with the Gregorian equivalent being 3761 BCE.

Leap years (those containing 13 months as opposed to 12) fall 7 every 19 years. The years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 in the 19 year cycle are leap years. In order to determin if a year is a leap year the remainder of the year when devided by 19 must equal 0, 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, or 17 in order to be a leap year. The year 5758 (1997/1998 CE Gregorian) would be the first ear of the 304th leap-year cycle and thus in order to calculate wether a year is a leap year one can either divided and see if the remainder fits or find the first year in its cycle using 5758 and count from there.

Since this is a lunar calendar each day, theoretically, begins at sundown. For calculation purposes each day begins at 6:00 PM (18:00).

 

[Israelite9191]

Per Mongols, read "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World." Genghis Khan created the Mongol Empire through diplomacy and warfare, but the actually rulership of the empire (particularly in succeeding reigns) fell to the empress. As for how the Mediterranean features of teh civilization would affect the matriarchality/matrilineality of the civilization, see my post.

Hawai'ins are Polynesian, I am not sure what you are saying.

I was only making a suggestion using my limmited knowledge of languages. I do not expect the actual Hebrew culture to be meshed into the Empire (well, maybe the calendar I proposed, but that is only because it is [as stated] the msot accurate solely lunar calendar [at least, as far as I know]).

 

[das]

Genghis Khan created the Mongol Empire through diplomacy and warfare, but the actually rulership of the empire (particularly in succeeding reigns) fell to the empress.

A much better argument could be made for the matriarchal structure of the 18th century Russian society, you know.

As for how the Mediterranean features of teh civilization would affect the matriarchality/matrilineality of the civilization, see my post.

I see some stuff about Mongol tribes that don't even exist the last time I checked. Nothing about the Mediterranean. The OTL Mediterranean was quite patriarchial most of the times, and I see no reason for it to be different here. Again, why complicate things more?

Hawai'ins are Polynesian, I am not sure what you are saying.

Hawaii geographically was different from all the other Polynesian island groups, and doesn't seem to have an analogy in this world.

EDIT: Furthermore, the Muslim lunar calendar (and the Persian one, by extension) are rather more sophisticated from what I have heard. The OTL Ancient Greeks also had a lunar calendar, btw - will have to search for that, I suppose, as it fits the situation best.

 

[BananaLee]

Just a note, the Muslim calendar is highly inaccurate and would be useless for seasonal stuff. As it is, the Aildilfitri (the Muslim celebration for the end of Ramadan) back home continuously goes backwards along the year every year and there are even occassions when there are two Aidilfitris in a Gregorian year (one in Jan and the other in Nov or Dec).

The most accurate lunar calendar I know of is the Chinese calendar as they add a leap month every two or three years based on astronomical calculation. However, the calculations are difficult enough to make it rather useless for a NES or at least inconvienient. If you really want a lunar calendar, I recommend either the Egyptian one (360 days a year with 5 days of "festival" added) or Israelite's recommendation - which seems much simpler than the Chinese one.

 

[das]

The Egyptian one will work, I suppose. The Greek one is highly confusing, not to mention Lunosolar...

 

[North King]

Er... Why can't we just use a solar calendar?

Also, the Empire's language is, well, whatever the heck it is, it's essentially our main power, and since our main language here is English, I'd suggest we just translate the names of the Empire's stuff into English.

Hence the Empire is (drumroll, please), The Empire.

 

[Swissempire]

Thats SUCH A HORRIBEL NAME. YOU PHAIL NORTH KING!
FAIL!

The Empire should either be:

Impeire

The Latea Empire

See Empire

Or

The Grand Empire of Serene Chipland.

But in all seriousness, I like See Empire, because then the Emperor can declare himself "The Holy See"

 

[North King]

Er... amusing as I'm sure you would find that, I prefer a simple name of The Empire.

 

[Swissempire]

But seriously, we can't just call it "The Empire" Thats so........bad. Like thats just a description. It needs a name, a grand name. If you just want "The Empire" make it a nomenclature, like "Impeire" or Ampir, or soemthing

 

[North King]

The Imperial Empire. *is shot*

All right, The Greater Empire of the Isle, often shortened to, The Empire.

I also maintain we should use an English naming system for the Empire itself, and reserve different languages for different nations.

 

[Kozmos]

What about the Imperium Navis or Aegir Imperium.

 

[North King]

What about... The Empire.

We don't need a fancy name.

 

[Oruc]

Isnt that a bit warhammerish?

 

[North King]

The Empire?

Actually, it's a bit... English.

Seriously. It's The... Empire. What the hell is wrong with that? It describes the thing, it's simple and easy to remember, and it's short. What more could a name want?

 

[Kozmos]

Isnt that a bit warhammerish?

Not even the least bit, Imperium(The Empire) is a latin word. Navis is latin for boat or ship and Aegir means the sea.