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[GS] Ideas for UUs that are still Terrible

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Lily_Lancer, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,731
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    During the past few years many UUs have been enhanced, but there're still lots of useless UUs. Here are some suggestions to make them useful while keeping their unique properties.


    P-51 Mustang: Currently only +5 strength and +2 movement compared with Fighters. Quite useless.

    Suggestion: Does not need aerodrome to build.

    Bireme: Currently only 4 movement and 30 strength, this is terrible since it is actually nothing better than a Trireme, especially when CSs start with walls.

    Suggestion: +5 against cities, additional +5 against City states. Deals full damage to walls.

    U-boat: Currently only +1 sight and +10 strength in ocean compared with submarines, not a good bonus since when you wish to attack things on land, you usually need to be on coast.

    Suggestion: +1 range

    Berserker: Melee units are not good at attacking, attack +10, defense -5 is actually not quite a useful ability. +2 move on enemy territory, but if you step on enemy territory, are you able to survive the next turn with the -5? Given that 40 strength 160 cost is terrible compared with Legion and Varu.

    Suggestion: +2 movement when starting on neutral territory, +2 movement and pillage only cost 1 movement if starting on enemy territory.

    Domrey: 220 prod cost siege units with only 33/45 strength? That's kidding.

    Suggestion: Cost reduced to 160.

    Highlander: +5 strength ranger, additional +5 on hills and forests. Is there anyone using rangers? Why don't use field cannons?

    Suggestion: Gain 1 additional free promotion. (This works for upgrades so if you already have level 2 it will be level 3)

    Immortal: I can't see the usefulness of this unit. It is worse than swords in defending and worse than archers in attacking.

    Suggestion: Increase melee strength to 36.

    Keshig: What is the usefulness on this unit? Faster Crossbows comes much later on tech trees and need horses?

    Suggestion: Being both ranged and cavalry units and it can be bonused by both +50% cards.( And also Mongol +3 strength)

    Okithicaw: 20 strength scout with additional cost and a free promotion. The thing is that this unit cannot be upgraded into so this promotion only promotes you from level 0 to 1. Still not very possible to make it level 3. However the additional cost hurts.

    Suggestion: Villages provide additional 15 faith when discovered by an Okithicaw.

    Rough Rider: Comes too late and not really useful.

    Suggestion: Can always be purchased by faith, can extract artifact if the city building it has an artifact museum with empty slots.

    Ngao Mbeba: Additional cost swordsman with not a very useful bonus. Still needs iron.

    Suggestion: +1 movement if start on rainforest and forest, moving on forest and rainforests cost 0.75 movement if the tile is not equipped with modern road or railroads.

    Mumluk: Automatic Regeneration compared with normal knights. However, that's only 5 health if on enemy territory.

    Suggestion: +5 regeneration.

    Barbarian Horse Camp: Since there is no upgrade for barbarian horse archer, Barbarian horse camps can only generate one type of unit of the current age. That's terrible since normal barb camps are a combination of melee and ranged units.

    Suggestion: Barbarian horse archer upgrade to Heavy chariot, and uses the heavy cavalry upgrade line after that. From the time when barbs can produce tanks, requirements for horse camps become oil instead of horses. (Normal camps switch to horse camps if it has oil nearby, vise versa.)

    Finally barb camps can form corp and army if civic permits, and all barb camps start to produce GDR if more than 1/2 of the civs have the tech of GDR.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  2. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,436
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Extra power against barbs would be good, to counter the huge numbers of barb quads.
     
  3. Aurelesk

    Aurelesk Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    133
    Gender:
    Male
    I would like to see this for all unique units:
    • All unique units cannot be made obsolete. For example, you can always produce War-Cart in the future era.
    • All unique units that don't replace a regular unit can be created by upgrading a unit:
      • The Berserker, the Khevsur, and the Samurai are upgraded from a Swordsman and all of them upgrade into Musketman.
      • The Garde Impériale and the Redcoat are upgraded from a Musketan and both upgrade into Infantry (not Mechanized Infantry).
      • The Saka Horse Archer, the Crouching Tiger and the Keshig are upgraded from an Archer if the Archer is inside a City-Center or an Encampment, and they all respectively upgrade into a Crossbowman, and a Field Cannon for the last two.
      • The Malón Raider and the Mountie are upgraded from Cavalry and both upgrade into Helicopter.
      • The Varu is upgraded from Heavy Chariot and upgrade into Knight (not Cuirassier).
      • The Winged Hussar is upgraded from Knight and upgrade into Cuirassier (not Tank).
      • The Rough Rider is upgraded from Cuirassier and upgrade into Tank (not Modern Armor).
      • The Domrey is upgraded from Catapult and upgrade into Bombard (not Artillery).
    • All units that have a strategic ressource as maintenance cost don't consume them if they didn't move (or deployed), attack or get attacked. You can now build a standing army and not run out of strategic ressource before the war start.

    P-51 Mustang
    isn't bad: the airplanes are very good in general but... you need an Aerodrome that consume a district slots. The best improvement to airplane is to make the Aerodrome not use a district slot, or allow to build 1 airplane in city-center / encampement, and add more bonuses to Aerodrome (bonus toward tourism in the city, allow airplane to heal only in Aerodrome, add the Aerodrome as a way to increase gold yield from trade route or allow trader to "teleport" from any Aerodrome to any Aerodrome in their trips..).

    Bireme is just a faster bulky Galley that allow to prevent Trade Route to be plundered. I agree with Pietato: extra power against Barbarians could be amazing.

    Okithicaw is a little to pricey meanwhile the Scout are a little too frail. They should both cost 35 Production (instead of 30 and 40 respectively), and Scout should start with 15 CS (instead of 10). Instead of having a free Promotion to choose, maybe the Okithicaw should automaticly get the Ranger Promotion, but still get considered as a level 0 unit (and gain Exp with barbs).
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  4. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,465
    Location:
    Poland
    Half of problematic unique units are problematic because they need to be hard built (cannot be upgraded into) OR they replace useless normal units. In both cases additional buffs won't help much. Those units would need to become part of upgrade paths or rework of normal units.
     
  5. Sostratus

    Sostratus Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
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    Location:
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    Just going to hit a few from your list.
    Obviously making hard built UUs able to be upgraded into is something I really endorse.

    P-51 Mustang: Currently only +5 strength and +2 movement compared with Fighters.

    You could do several fun things here. If you wanted to make America extremely good, you'd just make these guys not use aluminum. Off they go, into the great blue yonder...


    U-boat: Currently only +1 sight and +10 strength in ocean compared with submarines

    I would really like to see the uboat be broken up for scrap and melted down into a panzer unique tank, but in this case i think one route is to remove it's oil use; Nuke subs don't use oil, so it'd be alright.
    Alternatively, just give it +10:c5rangedstrength: all the time. (So base 85:c5rangedstrength:/65:c5strength:.) Have you people seen the Minas geraes?! This wouldn't even be close to that good.

    Berserker: attack +10, defense -5 is actually not quite a useful ability. +2 move on enemy territory.

    Suggestion: first, we can the defense penalty entirely. Second, this boy goes to 45:c5strength: like all the other cool Military tactics UUs. Third, +5:c5strength: on attack. He can keep +1:c5moves: in enemy territory if it feels right.


    Rough Rider: Comes too late and not really useful.

    Outright have the RR replace the cuirassier, so it has 67:c5strength: base with the +10:c5strength: on hills. Normalize cost to 330:c5production: like the Cuir and have it use 10 niter. Scrap the culture thing.
    It'll take more than Pike&Shot to kill a Bull Moose!
     
  6. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
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    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Having to hard build units later in the game means they are built in the larger older cities and start out no where near the front lines. That's ok if they are defensive units. I guess making hard built units available for faith purchase helps but it also means your not using that faith on something else.

    Ngao Mbeba, Mumluk,Bireme and Okithicaw are good units in MP.
     

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