If in a Civ game China was represented by a dynasty ...

[Mango Elephant]

Which dynasty would represent China best? So like, instead of a Chinese civilization in Civ6, there would be a Tang Civilization, or a Song Civilzation, or a Zhou Civilization. Out of those dynasties (and all the other Chinese dynasties, like the Han and Ming and the rest) which one would be the most worthy to represent China at it's peak?

 

[Kraznaya]

There's a reason why "ethnic" Chinese are called Hanren.

 

[Karalysia]

Largest China is best China so one of these three

 

[Dachs]

Sui, because it's a microcosm of all of Chinese history

 

[Kraznaya]

Sui, because it's a microcosm of all of Chinese history

yeah screw you :<

Moderator Action: Infraction for flaming. - KD
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Azale]

Han is out because the Eastern Han blew. Tang is a strong contender, but I am also partial to the Qing.

 

[Graceheart the Leopard]

Tang or Qing would be my choice.

 

[Mango Elephant]

Oh, this was supposed to be in World History. >.< Oh well, I'm dumb.

I made this thread in the first place because I'm terribly interested in Chinese history, I like the thought of high reaching mountains and bustling oriental courts very much, and China has many of those, or had many of those. One of the things I've never liked about Civ games is how they make Beijing the capital of China. I think Beijing is an ugly sounding name myself, I think Huangzhou or Xi'an or Guangzhou or Peking (I know Beijing is a modern Peking) would sound much nicer as the capital. I think it would be cool if in the next game they did have a Chinese dynasty to replace the generic 'Chinese civ'. I know China had a few golden ages in it's day, the Song, the Tang, the Han, and I think the Ming too, but maybe not the Ming. I think the Song civilization sounds very nice, doesn't it? The Tang not so much, but the Han civilization sounds very nice in my head. I read in my history book today that most Chinese think of the Han dynasty as the West think of ancient Rome, as the far off days in the fog of memory when great things were accomplished and the people had unsurpassed dexterity in their craft until the barbarians overthrew the empire and darkness ensued, but history books can be sometimes a bit biased and especially history books about all of human history tend to skim the surface and generally say things without giving the reasons for those things, which is why I made this thread, to see if the Han really were the ancient Rome of China, but also to see what history buffs think is the best Chinese dynasty. When you say a dynasty, could you give the reasons for said dynasty? I'm sure you guys know much more than me.

 

[Dachs]

My question is, why would you pick a single Chinese dynasty in the first place? It'd be like separating the Soviet Union from the Muscovite-Russian empire.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Chinese people will generally like to have the Song dynasty, as our representative, since we view this as our most accomplished dynastic period. Culturally, economically and technologically inclined players will pick this as well I think.

Militaristic players will pick the Qin, Han, Tang or Qing. Although the Qing is Manchu and may be viewed as not Chinese.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Moderator Action: Moved to History.

 

[Dachs]

Chinese people will generally like to have the Song dynasty, as our representative, since we view this as our most accomplished dynastic period.

Chinese people in this thread are Han: 1 Song: 1

 

[Knight-Dragon]

My question is, why would you pick a single Chinese dynasty in the first place? It'd be like separating the Soviet Union from the Muscovite-Russian empire.

Because China is such an ancient nation, that depending on the period, its different phases can be very different I guess.

Some people here had even argued (in the past?) that China can't be the oldest nation on earth because Zhou China or Qin/Han China were totally different countries and thus not related to the China of today.

 

[Karalysia]

My question is, why would you pick a single Chinese dynasty in the first place? It'd be like separating the Soviet Union from the Muscovite-Russian empire.

Which is something you kind of should do. The Soviet Union is something of an aberration in terms of cultural presence. The linkages between the Soviet Union and old Muscovy just aren't there.

 

[Kraznaya]

Chinese people will generally like to have the Song dynasty, as our representative, since we view this as our most accomplished dynastic period. Culturally, economically and technologically inclined players will pick this as well I think.

Militaristic players will pick the Qin, Han, Tang or Qing. Although the Qing is Manchu and may be viewed as not Chinese.

Since when did you speak for all Chinese people? Pls do not do it again. What technological, economic, or cultural accomplishments did the Song have that distinguish them as the Definitive Chinese Dynasty from rival dynasties? In any case, the most common Chinese self-referential ethnonyms - Huaxia, Hanzu, Hanren, and Tangren are much more referential of what "Chinese" people view as the enduring representatives of their cultural heritage than your ridiculous conjectures.

I think Beijing is an ugly sounding name myself, I think Huangzhou or Xi'an or Guangzhou or Peking (I know Beijing is a modern Peking) would sound much nicer as the capital

This really isn't an issue since you likely don't know how they sound properly pronounced anyway (Peking and Beijing are supposed to be pronounced the exact same way.) Also, Guangzhou being the capital of China is as laughable as Houston being the capital of the United States, although Xi'an (Chang'an) and Hangzhou (Qiantang) were capitals of Chinese states during various periods of Chinese history.

 

[Dachs]

Which is something you kind of should do. The Soviet Union is something of an aberration in terms of cultural presence. The linkages between the Soviet Union and old Muscovy just aren't there.

Should've made this funnier if you were going to be silly.

 

[Karalysia]

I'm writing a paper on it right now. There's nothing silly about it.

 

[Dachs]

That's like throwing up Peep Show and Shakespeare and saying that early Stuart England had little to no linkages with the modern UK.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Chinese people in this thread are Han: 1 Song: 1

I never said I prefer the Song myself.

Personally the first half of the Tang is the closest to my ideal representative Chinese dynasty. Militantly expansive, well-run and very cosmopolitan.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Since when did you speak for all Chinese people? Pls do not do it again. What technological, economic, or cultural accomplishments did the Song have that distinguish them as the Definitive Chinese Dynasty from rival dynasties? In any case, the most common Chinese self-referential ethnonyms - Huaxia, Hanzu, Hanren, and Tangren are much more referential of what "Chinese" people view as the enduring representatives of their cultural heritage than your ridiculous conjectures.

That's the general convention amongst the people around me and I assumed it's generally so; I am so very sorry that it ruffled your Sinophile feathers!

Any casual peruse of material related to the Song will easily inform you why it is usually considered the pinnacle of Chinese cultural, economic and technological accomplishments so I will not dwell on this.

My own guess is this was the period when the ordinary Chinese person felt the most secured and empowered (when the poorest kid can really rise to become the prime minister of the land thru the exam system, when there're at least one school in every village so literate levels were at their highest, when the emperor system was at its weakest and it's the different factions of scholar-officials calling the shots etc), so people tend to look back at this period in nostalgia.

The Hanren moniker is fairly recent I believed. Probably in Manchu times, to differentiate themselves from their Manchu dynastic overlords. Prior, the Chinese had usually referred to themselves by whatever dynasty was in power I think. Or so watching historical TV dramas in pre-Qing settings have (mis)led me to believe!