pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Ming China

pre-release info
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Most of the depictions of Zheng He's fleet were fantastical in nature, not based on available evidence. Even if they do they are based on the drawings of the later eras. Most of the roundish ships in the photo (particularly the black-hulled one with red lines and the white-and-yellow hulled one) are not grounded in reality, I don't know who started depicting Zheng He's ship like that but those depictions are the most popular. The sail of the junk (battened) rig of this era would be squarish in shape (though it worked like a lugsail), not "fan-like" or "batwing-like", these later two only appeared after the 19th century.

The ship on the lower left seems to be partly based on the depiction of the "Tower ship" on this page, which explains Fuchuan. The rather long ship at the lower right is strange: While it has the more accurate square-shaped junk sail, it has a square topsail, a feature that might have been influenced by European ships after the 17th century. But it also has a middle deckhouse with crenellations like early Chinese ships. None of the models are accurate in depicting Zheng He's fleet.



The size endorsed by the Chinese government and embassies dictates that the flagship of Zheng He would be more than 120 m in length (44 zhang long with 1 zhang = 3 to 3.5 m). This ignores the fact that other Chinese texts recorded European ships far larger than that (150 and even 180 m in length). The problem would be in the conversion of the unit used, available archaeological findings of the Chinese measurement ruler put the zhang unit as equivalent to 1.5 to 1.6 m.
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Detail notwithstanding, miniature depictions of Zheng He's fleet almost always have an inconsistent scale. The ship on the center and lower right would have an enormous deck height compared to ships on the left. You can also see this in the popular (but propagandistic) depiction of Zheng He's baochuan compared to Columbus' ship: The deck and the mast on the treasure ship would have been several times larger compared to Columbus'. The drawing-accurate depiction of Zheng He's flagship would be the model made by maritime archaeologist Nick Burningham.

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This scale model reflects a more realistic, but still awe-inspiring, length of over 190 feet (57.9 m).
I don't understand why Chinese history text loves to compare Zheng He's Bao Chuan with Columbus's mini carrack (half caravel, half carrack) rather than Portuguese Naus that made it way into China (which should be more sizable. and could be equal to Zheng He's 'Floating City' ship.).
 
It is a Fenghuang, a mystical bird usually used as a symbol for the imperial house, similar to Loong/Chinese Dragon.

I believe the emblem itself is taken from a typical porcelain pattern for Fenghuang, similar to this one:

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(Although personally, I feel that having Fenghuang for Ming is primarily due to the need to differentiate them from Qing, which uses the typical Loong as their emblem.)

So you can say that Siamese 'Wayupaksa' (Storm Bird) is actually modelled after Chinese Feng Huang (so often referred to the Western World as 'Phoenix', which maybe or may not be accurate, given Godlike characterisitcs, Feng Huang is more comparable to Ziz)?
Did Ming Chinese associate Feng Huang with Treasury too?
Ministry of Finance Emblem.jpg
 
So you can say that Siamese 'Wayupaksa' (Storm Bird) is actually modelled after Chinese Feng Huang (so often referred to the Western World as 'Phoenix', which maybe or may not be accurate, given Godlike characterisitcs, Feng Huang is more comparable to Ziz)?
Did Ming Chinese associate Feng Huang with Treasury too?
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In China:
  1. Fenghuang is the symbol of the reign of peace, while Loong is the symbol of the celestial ruler.
  2. Loong and Fenghuang are top two mythical animals in China. They were commonly used for the symbol of Emperors, Empresses, and the sovereignty of Chinese world.
  3. Sometimes Fenghuang is regarded as the same existence with another Chinise mythical bird Zhuque. But the symbolism of both animal is slightly different: Fenghuang is mainly dealt with as itself, Zhuque is mainly dealt with as a member of Four Symbols.
  4. Phoenix is regarded as the bird endlessly reborn from ash. Contrastively, Fenghuang is regarded as the bird never die.

Bonus) Korea also worshiped Fenghuang (Bonghwang) as the similar symbolism. Nowadays, you can find Bonghwang from the seal and flag of the president/government of South Korea.
 
So you can say that Siamese 'Wayupaksa' (Storm Bird) is actually modelled after Chinese Feng Huang (so often referred to the Western World as 'Phoenix', which maybe or may not be accurate, given Godlike characterisitcs, Feng Huang is more comparable to Ziz)?
Did Ming Chinese associate Feng Huang with Treasury too?
View attachment 713897

In general - no, Feng Huang is not directly associated with treasures or wealth. You can draw vague connection between the two in a sense that Feng Huang represent virtue and good fortune overall.

For a Chinese mythological creature more tightly associated with wealth, look for Pixiu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixiu
 
I don't understand why Chinese history text loves to compare Zheng He's Bao Chuan with Columbus's mini carrack (half caravel, half carrack) rather than Portuguese Naus that made it way into China (which should be more sizable. and could be equal to Zheng He's 'Floating City' ship.).

The comparison is deliberate: Comparing Baochuan with Columbus' ship is something pseudo-historians and Chinese nationalists do. This behavior has been criticized by Chinese academics and engineers themselves, but it looks like every time someone did it they always got debunked one way or another (you can see this back-and-forth in Xi Longfei's History of Ancient Chinese Shipbuilding). It is the perfect hotdog-measuring contest that can be won by historical China. It has been regurgitated ad nauseam -- you can see those "propaganda" comparisons on FB, Reddit, and X over and over again.

I understand the fair comparison would be Baochuan against those great Lisbon and "Indian" carracks, such Cinco Chagas, Cinco Chagas (1559), Madre de Deus, and Santa Catarina.

Zheng He is equivalent to an admiral, the comparison should not be made against a pioneer (Columbus), but with another admiral, for example, Admiral Nelson. If anything Columbus should be compared to a Chinese pioneer in maritime exploration, but what the ships they use is anyone's guess.
 
So you can say that Siamese 'Wayupaksa' (Storm Bird) is actually modelled after Chinese Feng Huang (so often referred to the Western World as 'Phoenix', which maybe or may not be accurate, given Godlike characterisitcs, Feng Huang is more comparable to Ziz)?

I would say not really comparable - SAE has its own mystical bird tradition, largely developed from the Hindu deity Garuda, which is very different from the East Asia ones.

Ziz is more like the Chinese Peng or Da Peng, while Fenghuang is not known for its size.
 
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