If USSR signed the Tripartite.

[Ukraineboy]

What would happen if the USSR signed the Tripartite pact with Germany, Italy and Japan? Germany very much wanted USSR to join but the Hitler didn't like Stalin's demands so he withdrew his offer.

What would happen if Hitler accepted it and let Stalin in. USSR declares war on the Allies. this is what I think would happen... It sends in troops to help Japan in the East, and sends in troops to help Germany... I think what would happen is that, Germany defeats France etc. With the added troops of USSR, North African campaign would probably be accomplished. USSR would gain Finland. Hitler would then start Operation Sealion and invade Britain. Japan would defeat the Chinese with the help of the USSR. USSR would probably establish Communist China to govern some areas, while the rest is given to Japan. Japan would take all of India, and it would defeat the Netherlands in the Pacific. Japan would then start a Pearl Harbour type bombing and qould achieve its goal of making USA submit to the Japanese demands for Oil. Japan would then turn its attention to Australia. Invade it succesfully....

And I bet Fascist Spain would join in since the tide of the war was turned, and would get to keep Gibraltar and some of Northern Africa....

South Africa would easily be invaded and destroyed, or maybe Germany would sign a Peace Treaty with Canada and South Africa, a humiliating one at that. Germany now has won... Now, the big question.... do you think Hitler would turn his back on USSR? I dont think he would want to make a full-fledged war, I bet he would try to create a Coup D'etat to throw Stalin out of power and install a Puppet Regime....

And.. they prospor.... Germany, after getting Lebensraum and literally destroying the Jewish minority, would then install various puppet governments in England, and give the rest of France to Vichy France.

What do you think would happen?

 

[Michael York]

And upon the Western Allies learning of Russia's signing of the treaty, the USA would have seen the balance of power in Europe as having been shifted. It might have entered into a mpp with the Western Allies. Japan might have been forced to fight the US too early in the war. If early enough, The USN could have brought its entire fleet to the pacific. Without the Shokoku and Zuikaku, or as experienced of pilots, and against the full might of the USN, Japan would have been isolated and blockaded very quickly into the conflict.

 

[pawpaw]

i doubt the ussr could send troops to help the japanese in asia--they didn't get along, having fought several small battles along the mongolia boarder in 1938 and 1939. hitler may have talked of an allience but he would betrayed the ussr as soon as it was to his advantage, he didn't regard the soviets as equals. france fell and england pushed to the brink with little or no germany troops on the eastern front ( they were able to mass on the western) so a soviet allience gains nothing more than the temporary one they had in 1939. maybe rommel wins in africa with more support and england sues for peace after losing the suez canal. then what? the soviets wanted influence in romania, bulgaria,ect... hitler wasn't going to let them ring him with soviets allies, he would turn on ussr and there would no english or u.s. aid this time or a second front--just ussr vs germany mono- mono

 

[Ossric]

Hitler never wanted to form an alliance with the USSR, he was seeking Liebensraum in the East, specifically looking for the grassy fields of Ukraine.

 

[Bifrost]

I don't think that even a small part of what you've written here was any possible. It's very doubtful.
Besides, we all believe in the United States - Americans couldn't have let this happen

and btw, if you're really a ukraineboy, you must be from western Ukraine, mustn't you?

 

[privatehudson]

I agree that under such stretched out logic, the US could not fail to join an alliance to protect Britain and so on from invasion. The US would be very unlikely to want western Europe and most of Africa's north coast under the control of one alliance, especially if this included removing Britain as it removed the giant aircraft carrier and invasion staging post for any future attacks against such an alliance.

 

[joespaniel]

Originally posted by Ossric
Hitler never wanted to form an alliance with the USSR, he was seeking Liebensraum in the East, specifically looking for the grassy fields of Ukraine.

Bingo.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

'Sides, Hitler wasn't mentally capable of accepting an alliance with peoples he considered as lesser than humans, per the Nazi ideology. The non-aggression pact earlier was nothing more than a convenience.

One reason I think Japan agreed to an alliance with Germany was that it might be used against the USSR - it's probably a part of the negotiations to bring the Japanese into the alliance.

 

[Ukraineboy]

Originally posted by Bifrost
I don't think that even a small part of what you've written here was any possible. It's very doubtful.
Besides, we all believe in the United States - Americans couldn't have let this happen

and btw, if you're really a ukraineboy, you must be from western Ukraine, mustn't you?

I'm actually NOT from the area of Western Ukraine (Called Galicia)

I am from Odessa, Ukraine the port city which was invaded by Romanians... In Odessa, partisans fought all the way up until they were liberated in the Catacombs. In Odessa there is this huge labyrinth of tunnels underground, basically a Catacombs. Partisans survived in Odessa's Catacombs (with help of Odessa Citizens bringing food) and Romanian (Then later, German) troops were too afraid to go down there, because it was very dark and the partisans could easily attack them.

Odessa was, during the war renamed to Antonescu, after the Romanian General-turned-President.

Western Ukraine, or Galicia was the site of many Ukrainian sympathizers with the Nazis. They even made Waffen SS division for the volunteers. They helped round up Jews and Partisans for the Einzatzgruppen to be exterminated. They helped kill there own people. Later, when the Red Army came back, they killed (or later, assisnated by the NKVD) the Galicia Division members, and any other Nazi Sympathizers. My Great Grandfather I believe was in the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, the army that wanted to liberate itself from Nazi Germany AND Soviet Russia. They even managed to declare L'vov (L'viv in Ukrainian, L'wow in Polish) a free country. But ofcourse Hitler didn't very much care for it, and Stepan Bandera, who was arrested and sent later to Sachsendhuasen Concentration Camp, was released into Munich where he was assisnated by the KGB. Some Historians believe that Ukraine has probably suffered the most from WWII and the preceding years of terror. in the 20's Stalin had created an artifical famine in Ukraine, killing over 8 million Ukrainians. it is estimated another 5 million Ukrainians died in the following years during Operation Barborossa. This is almost double how many Jewish people were killed during the Final Solution. Thousands more were killed by the NKVD during Stalin's Purges aswell.

Now adays, Ukraine is the biggest country fully in Europe (Russia is part of Europe, but not fully) and has one of the largest Grain manfuactorers.. The economy is in **** ofcourse rightnow, after the Fall of the Soviet Union, Ukraine has also designed many tanks, including the new T-84, and the T-80U made in 1997.

right now relations with the USA and Ukraine are very poor, since before the Iraqi war, Ukraine had sold Radar to Iraq and ofcourse, Bush was mad at that. Ukraine wants to join NATO, but without support from the USA its not likely going to happen.

 

[Yago]

I think there's the litte problem too, that the Japanese and Russians were kind of archenemies.

 

[rilnator]

Even if the Soviet Union signed the Tripartite it wouldn't mean they had to declare war on whoever Germany did. Italy took her time when declaring war on Britain and France and Japan never declared war on USSR at all.
Stalin and Molotov were very shrewd and I don't think they wanted to be included in any large scale wars at all. They were happy with what they could bully out of smaller neighbours at a low cost. they would have been a good supply base for Germany though if those 2 never came to blows