If you can build Auric Ascended, do you need him?

[Elm]

What if the Illians finds the Godslayer? That can make it impossible to kill AA

How exactly does the Godslayer work? When I got AA, the Calabim got GodSlayer. So I parked AA on a mountain and had other units attack. The first time I killed the unit with Godslayer, the godslayer was left behind. I am not certain, but I think a worker picked it up after that. Anyway, after I killed the next unit with Godslayer, and completely destroyed the Calabim, I never found the Godslayer. It vanished. And, no none of my units had it (even captured workers). So I do not know what happened to it.

 

[mo123567]

I love the idea of a permanent global effect (unless he gets killed) if it can be done without wiping out the computer. If the draw is kept as it is then AA should pretty much be an automatic win with the slight chance of someone killing him with the godslayer. If the Illians get their hands on it then too bad. You should have done something when the Illians were performing all those rituals.

 

[Tacgnol]

I agree that AA should be more overpowered, the one time I got him he got killed by a SoD when I was invading the other continent and I quit the game in frustration (bad move on my part I know but I thought he could handle it, and its not like he was alone, the SoD was bigger than I thought). He should have a 20% or greater heal after combat, and some first strikes would definitely help a lot, he is not nearly as overpowered as he should be. As someone mentioned, the Seven Pines can halfway negate the Draw (assuming that actually works), and if you instantly make peace with everyone after declaring war on everyone you can use Auric to get you the win from behind without too much risk.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

It seems that many people around here still feel that a dogpile should not be a viable counter. The problem is this: if a dogpile can't, what can? The last thing we want is a powerful unit with no counters. If Auric is in the sea and I can't take him down with 20 frigates, my question is, what can?

There are laws of Temporance in the universe, and laws of physics that everything in Erebus has to follow. He is meant to wield powers beyond mortal capabilities, not to be physically tougher-than-mithril and impossible to injure, because that is not possible. No Godzilla could possibly stand up against 100,000 trained soldiers, and even an Angel-incarnate standing as tall as the Eiffel Tower should lose in a straight-out fight if he is facing half the military might of an entire nation.

If you really want to strength him, I suggest adding the following promotions:
- fear (hey, I would be)
- perfect sight
- twincast
- channeling III
- ice III

 

[mo123567]

The thing is that AA is pretty much the entire point of the Illian civilization. No other civ can lose just one unit and have their whole game's work thrown in the trash. If he is so easy to kill then what's the point of using an otherwise pretty lackluster civ and going through the draw in the first place?

 

[Lade]

It seems that many people around here still feel that a dogpile should not be a viable counter. The problem is this: if a dogpile can't, what can? The last thing we want is a powerful unit with no counters. If Auric is in the sea and I can't take him down with 20 frigates, my question is, what can?

There are laws of Temporance in the universe, and laws of physics that everything in Erebus has to follow. He is meant to wield powers beyond mortal capabilities, not to be physically tougher-than-mithril and impossible to injure, because that is not possible. No Godzilla could possibly stand up against 100,000 trained soldiers, and even an Angel-incarnate standing as tall as the Eiffel Tower should lose in a straight-out fight if he is facing half the military might of an entire nation.

If you really want to strength him, I suggest adding the following promotions:
- fear (hey, I would be)
- perfect sight
- twincast
- channeling III
- ice III

Auric already has Ice III snowfall, except it goes two spaces and kills, why in the world would he want the weaker one as well?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

If a dogpile can't slay a god what what can? Simple, the Godslayer.

If Auric has regained his divinity it makes since that he would also regain the true immortality of a god, of the same type as the immortality of Os-Gabella or Nemed. He need not be tougher than mithril, as he would instantly heal from any wound and thus no injury would last more than the briefest moment. A million trained soldiers would be no more useful than one, as he would be fully healed as soon as any blade that scratches him is pulled out (or maybe pushed out by the healing process), unless said blade is The Godslayer.

I don't think that ships should be very useful against Auric Ascended, as thematically the water near him would freeze sold. It might be nice to have Snowfall_greater transform even water to Snow, and to be done passively wherever he goes.

Of course, he should never be able to survive the encounter with any unit with the Godslayer. I'm thinking the Godslayer should also let units move though impassible terrain, so Auric can't hide in the mountains.


There is no point in having Auric Ascended have 2 versions of Snowfall. If I were to give him another spell I'd let him summon Frost Giants (which would be like Wilboman minus the Hero promotion), perhaps creating them in python so they are permanent and not limited in number.

I think that Avatar should grant Fear, healing while moving, 100% healing after every battle, and Blitz.



I also think that Auric Ascended should have to be upgraded from the normal Auric Unit, and keep any promotions that the Mortal Auric purchased but never be able to purchase any more once he fully exemplifies Stasis. Having Auric fight a lot and get a lot of promotions would make Auric Ascended much stronger, but loosing him before he can ascend would make the ascension impossible and cost you your traits.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

No Godzilla could possibly stand up against 100,000 trained soldiers, and even an Angel-incarnate standing as tall as the Eiffel Tower should lose in a straight-out fight if he is facing half the military might of an entire nation.

you obviously haven't watched enough Dragonball Z

 

[mo123567]

If a dogpile can't slay a god what what can? Simple, the Godslayer.

If Auric has regained his divinity it makes since that he would also regain the true immortality of a god, of the same type as the immortality of Os-Gabella or Nemed. He need not be tougher than mithril, as he would instantly heal from any wound and thus no injury would last more than the briefest moment. A million trained soldiers would be no more useful than one, as he would be fully healed as soon as any blade that scratches him is pulled out (or maybe pushed out by the healing process), unless said blade is The Godslayer.

I don't think that ships should be very useful against Auric Ascended, as thematically the water near him would freeze sold. It might be nice to have Snowfall_greater transform even water to Snow, and to be done passively wherever he goes.

Of course, he should never be able to survive the encounter with any unit with the Godslayer. I'm thinking the Godslayer should also let units move though impassible terrain, so Auric can't hide in the mountains.


There is no point in having Auric Ascended have 2 versions of Snowfall. If I were to give him another spell I'd let him summon Frost Giants (which would be like Wilboman minus the Hero promotion), perhaps creating them in python so they are permanent and not limited in number.

I think that Avatar should grant Fear, healing while moving, 100% healing after every battle, and Blitz.



I also think that Auric Ascended should have to be upgraded from the normal Auric Unit, and keep any promotions that the Mortal Auric purchased but never be able to purchase any more once he fully exemplifies Stasis. Having Auric fight a lot and get a lot of promotions would make Auric Ascended much stronger, but loosing him before he can ascend would make the ascension impossible and cost you your traits.

I agree with all of this. Great ideas.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I also think that Auric Ascended should have to be upgraded from the normal Auric Unit, and keep any promotions that the Mortal Auric purchased but never be able to purchase any more once he fully exemplifies Stasis. Having Auric fight a lot and get a lot of promotions would make Auric Ascended much stronger, but loosing him before he can ascend would make the ascension impossible and cost you your traits.

I think that this sounds fun but would in the end not be a good idea, as it would lead to people quiting if they lost Auric, or reloading.

 

[KillerClowns]

Of course, the question of exactly how much divinity Auric regains upon ascension is a legitimate question. He might keep a certain, lingering mortal "taint" that comes from having once inhabited such a body (rather then being resurrected straight like Sucellus), which would permanently weaken him, leaving him, even at best, an ascendant mortal who was once a god.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I haven't played the Illians that much, and, since I share the question with the OP, I must conclude that the answer to the question is: No, you really don't need him, if you can build him, but he is cool as a concept, although not that usefull.

Thanks for the enlightment. I will keep this in mind next time I play the Illians

 

[CivBrit]

I completely agree with what WarKirby said - the point is to stop them from allowing him to ascend in the first place. If you sit around and allow the Illians to create AA, then you should seriously suffer for it.

Giving him the immortal promotion is a great idea. It's also a disadvantage in some ways, since it means the other players will make absolutely sure you are wiped off the face of the earth before you can create Auric (in MP at least).

I don't think he should gain xp, but I'd have him start with 50 strength, +15 ice, blitz, fear and immortal. Perhaps give him a variant of the immortal promo where the Illians suffer a huge unhappiness penalty whenever he is killed.

I like the idea of keeping him most likely to defend the stack though. If an angry vengeful god sees an army charging at him, he should stride out to meet it, not cower behind his minions.

 

[WarKirby]

I gave Auric 75 str, cannibalize, blitz, implacable, twincast, perfect sight, 4 first strikes, and 11 movement.

He doesn't die anymore.

 

[readercolin]

You all do realize that Auric Acended is strength 30/3 with +30 cold damage, right? That means that all it takes is an assasin with 100% cold resistance (or worse, a marksman wouldn't even need 100% cold resist, only 70% from resist cold and spell resist) and poof - he's gonners for good. Or, you could just take a phalanx with combat 5 and mithril, and he already has a greater than 50% chance of victory. And because Auric is an Avatar, he is more likely to defend the stack, meaning that a single promoted unit can very easily come on in and ruin him for good. This is the biggest problem that I have with auric - yeah, he's great for attacking, but he sucks on defense, and because he almost always is the first defender...

Auric, while shiny, isn't worth the cost.

-Colin

 

[Rutee]

It seems that many people around here still feel that a dogpile should not be a viable counter. The problem is this: if a dogpile can't, what can? The last thing we want is a powerful unit with no counters. If Auric is in the sea and I can't take him down with 20 frigates, my question is, what can?

The part where you attack him after he weakens himself with The Draw, and announces his intentions to the entire world, and kill him before he actually makes it?

No Godzilla could possibly stand up against 100,000 trained soldiers, and even an Angel-incarnate standing as tall as the Eiffel Tower should lose in a straight-out fight if he is facing half the military might of an entire nation.

Um. So.. you haven't seen Godzilla movies or, off the top of my head, Neon Genesis Evangelion, have you?

 

[KillerClowns]

Um. So.. you haven't seen Godzilla movies or, off the top of my head, Neon Genesis Evangelion, have you?

I'm going to break my "no posting while drunk" rule to point out that I am much more fond, philosophically, of Warhammer 40K's rules regarding this sort of thing: if you throw enough firepower enuff dakka at something, it will die. (Or at least need to put a hefty amount of effort into reforming in the physical plane.) Da Orkz and the Imperial Guard will be happy to explain this.
EDIT: Nearly forgot to mention that, naturally, I like that FfH preserves a similar philosophy. Certainly, Auric shouldn't be as comparatively unimpressive as he is, but the "enuff dakka" rule should still apply.

 

[Lade]

Part of the fun would be building "The Draw" if you probably will get steamrolled. Has anyone actually tried this?

Would be almost a fun as "require complete kills" combined with Loki and DoW on everyone

 

[ICanHasName?]

Question: Can you kill the godslayer with a HN unit or is that just a FF bug?

On the one hand, the entire army of an end game nation kamikazing into Auric seems like it should kill him. On the other hand, there are probly going to be between 2 and a dozen nations, and dogpiling is one of the few concepts the AI actually understands. If he can be killed by anything less then an elite dragon, he just isnt worth it.

Currently Auric has 4 pretty solid counters, other then just mass attacking him. The first counter to Auric is the 40 nation coalition that shows up looking for your Auric of Mass Destruction. The second counter is the godslayer, which could end up on a scout defending a Kurio settlement but is a pretty hard counter if it doesn't. The third counter is resistance to cold damage, which makes that 60 strength look a lot less scary. The fourth counter is a dragon with the netherblade (never done this, is it possible?) and a collection of horseman trophies. Actually since dragons are magic immune the netherblade alone might be enough, assuming they can even use it (dragons dont have thumbs ).

I'm going to have to say nothing other then godslayer resistance would make him overpowered. He should be a victory condition you get to blow stuff up with.

 

[Daris]

I have my own idea of what to do with him as well though. Make him so that he starts out uber, but not too uber enough to be killed by someone who has a large enough army and enough power to take down somebody who has just gotten their abilities. But the longer he is around, the more powerful he should get, until he reaches his full strength, and then the Godslayer should be the only thing that can defeat him..