IGN first look at E3

Alright, full disclosure before I post. Over the winter, Rome Total War took over as the strategy game I play the most and I still rank it as the best strategy game I have ever played (although the Civilization 3 is a close second, I never did get to play Civilization 2).

Personally, I like the idea of the large unit frames although I must say, the scaling down to 75% did make the graphics look cleaner. In the interests of not having this game require exorberant amounts of RAM and large video cards, hopefully they will provide a scaling slider in a graphics preferences menu.

One thing I do not like about the unit graphics is that they do not look good stacked on top of cities. Going back to Rome Total War for a second, the armies are similarly disproportionate to the terrain but when in settlements, the army disappears. In order to see it, you must click on the settlement and the pictures of the various units in the army appear below in addition to various pieces of info (experience, equipment upgrades, number of men). Perhaps that would also help to clean up the graphics a bit for Civ4.

Other things I like:

New government system - I think the civics idea has huge potential and am quite excited about this. Not only will it add new elements of strategy to the game but it will really allow players to customize their empires in new ways.

Religion - I think that they have done a good job in introducing religion but also balancing it in a way so that no religion will have preference. I would have had no problem if they invented religions to further prevent any issues arrising from it but I believe the system in place again shows quite a bit of promise (don't let me down Sid!)

New Culture System - Culture level tied to happines...hurray!

Trade - Using rivers as roads is a great idea. With rivers giving +1 commerce last time due to the justification that rivers can be used for commerce, allowing trade over them simply strengthens this element. Well done! I also like the idea of having to agree with a leader to give trade rights and then allowing automatic trade. This is taken directly from the Rome Total War model and I am very pleased by this too.

Food as Health - I agree with one of the people above, this could make seiges much more interesting. Perhaps this is one of the ideas they had in mind to eliminate the infamous "stock of doom" battles.

Hybrid Artillery Units - I want to see more about this but I am glad they have changed artillery. I found artillery relatively useless in Civ3. In order to be useful, you needed far too much of it.

New Unit Properties - When gaining experience, units gain new abilities--AWESOME! Also, I love the idea of units being stronger or weaker against certain types of units and eliminating the a/d/m statistics. This should make combat less about crunching equations and more about using certain unit types strategically. New military strategies are a huge bonus!

5 types of great leaders - I liked the addition of scientific leaders, we shall see what these bring. Not a bad idea though :)

Diplomacy - Looks like some nice changes to the model from last time, should be good.

Espionage - I love it. I am very very pleased about having actual spy units. I am assuming that we will move spy units on the map and be able to plant them in cities for long periods of time. That way we can gain complete information about that city and conduct missions. I am assuming that is how it will work, again, applying the Rome Total War model (and I think the designers certainly looked at that model).

Missionaries - Maybe similar to the spying model I put above? I wonder if you can plant missionaries in cities and try to convert their culture slowly? That was the system in play in Medieval Total War, if religious characters converted enough people in your provinces so that the religion of your empire was substantially in the minority, the provinces had a good chance of revolting. By this token, will that mean we can use missionaries in our own cities to destroy other cultural influences?

Tech Tree - goes back to the government argument

Moddability - one word - WOOHOO!

What I do not like:

I haven't heard anything about changing the method in which you acquire money. I would much prefer income tied solely to improvements. This would mean that if a city has a resource, it could build an improvement to exploit that resource and make money. By that token, I also haven't heard any mention about being able to hire mercenaries which is a disappointment.

More to come later, I have to run, I am EXCITED!!!
 
Commander Bello said:
So, at this link: you can see some "bird's view" screen which I think are quite nice.

I think this zoom level is more where I would play the game. Seeing only 5 tiles like the close-in shots showed, is useless for actually playing the game. The zoomed out shots look a lot better.
 
No one ever bought Civ because of the graphics and no one ever will! Nevertheless I'm the type who likes being soaked into a game by graphical gimmicks and movies (Thank God they're back!)
The graphics engine from Pirates! is fine. The land-combat wasn't one of the major priorities there and therefore the units weren't either. For cIV this has changed and that's good As far as I can see from those Screenshots that's what they've done: Improving the looks of units.
What about not having smaller units (because I like zooming in and seeing "real detailed" units - My guys and the bad boys! ;) ) but bigger cities? Concerning terrain improvement and trees it has to be de-scaled to maintain a good overview! BTW these screenshots are very likely zoomed in to a high degree so if you want to see a more strategic map just zoom out! Great!

I love the world-view and hope you are wrong concerning barbs being replaced by animals; that would be awful. Goody huts yould be from gone civilizations or aliens? Nope!
If they stay to what they said and implement a more cineatic feel to the game, that's just great! I loved the wonder-movies and I love sequences, when something special happens. I know it adds NOTHING to gameplay at all but to the way a game "feels", which is extremely important to me (next to a good story or an in depth-strategy-experience).
I like to win, but don't need to at Sid, when it means I need a calculator and make it a scientific approach each turn I play. What about fun?? ;) It's always a problem keeping the balance between being in-depth and just being looking-good, but I trust in Firaxis (and the modders) on this one!

More importantly (Thanks, warpstorm!) I believe that many aspects of the gameplay will be improved, especially the civics! It will be great to play with them and have a much wider variety of how to rule your country than in Civ3. I like the improved personalities of the leaders you play. Hopefully they won't only shake their heads if you don't listen to them but will have a certain power in "making you do" what they want. This might help very much adding the feeling of ruling a state of people with their own minds made up rather then just "do as you like" , like Aussie Lurker stated in other posts. It's not implemented the way you, Aussie, wanted it to be, but IF the leaders will have a certain power to direct you into what they want because otherwise you're in trouble somehow it IS implemented, which is good anyhow. (gee, what a sentence!)

Religion: I was very sceptical when I heard it the first time, but I think it should be ok in the end, especially when they really put some reason and meaning behind this mentioned "holy city" (won't repeat anything already stated here, now). Concerning missionaries: They've been important in history and should be in cIV!

Trade routes hopefully will be viewable on the map (sounds like that to me!). I agree with most of the people here that espionage won't be improved at all and that spy-units won't be helpful, although I never tended to use "terrorist action" very much!
And I hope all of you are wrong concerning workers! This is the most un-fun part in the whole game IMO. Why do you think they are still around?? Have you seen them or did anybody mention them being still there? Just an idea, which maybe now comes too late or already has been discussed somewhere else: What about a little bit of CtP and a new approach: In the first x years you can do improvements every turn. They cost you a certain amount of "investment". The no. and type of improvement you can do in each turn depends on the no. of Cities you have and/or the people in your country/civ. The further the game proceeds, the less often you have the chance to do those improvement, e.g. every 5 turns, then every 10 turns (this should be linked to a certain turn, e.g. each turn until 1000b.c., then each 2 turns until 500a.c. ! At the end of a turn where you are allowed to do worker-tasks you see, how much "worker-potential" you have available to use up, you use it up and then you can forget about workers the next 10 turns, 20 turns, whatever... Bad idea? Ok, just go ahead :D

Cheers, Stilgar
 
Stilgar08 said:
I like the improved personalities of the leaders you play. Hopefully they won't only shake their heads if you don't listen to them but will have a certain power in "making you do" what they want. This might help very much adding the feeling of ruling a state of people with their own minds made up rather then just "do as you like" , like Aussie Lurker stated in other posts. It's not implemented the way you, Aussie, wanted it to be, but IF the leaders will have a certain power to direct you into what they want because otherwise you're in trouble somehow it IS implemented, which is good anyhow. (gee, what a sentence!)

I have the feeling that only the leaders of foreign nations will be 'angry' or 'pleased' by your choices in the game and not the leader of your civ (yourself!). I guess they took that from SMAC where leaders had built-in personalities and definite prferences about how an empire should be managed.

eg. You find yourself at the head of the pacifist theology of Egypt and Bismarck becomes angry at you because, say, he doesn't like pacifist types...

I guess that's what they are doing and I'm not too happy about it because it may mean that certain civs will tend to follow the same paths. Maybe that's why they included two leaders for some civs?
 
Frankly, I'm shocked by the negativity expressed in this thread. Why so much hate floating around around out there? None of you have ever played this game before! You have no idea how it will actually work in practice! I don't mean to offend, but jeez guys, cut Firaxis a little slack here before you slice a game you've never played before to ribbons.

As for the graphics, maybe the units look a little goofy, but on the whole I think it looks pretty darn good. As others have said, these screenshots look like they were zoomed way in so that you could see the detailed unit models (and many of you have ripped Firaxis for letting you see some new units up close :rolleyes: ). Let's take a look at the Civ3 swordsman just to compare how far things have come:

Epic8romandance.jpg


And then the just-released image of this swordsman/legion (?) thingie:

civilization-iv-20050516030621271.jpg


I, for one, think the graphics are much improved! And, seeing as how we have no clue how the gameplay will shake out yet, I'm not about to fall all over myself with doom and gloom predictions. For "CivFanatics", much of the group here seems pretty masochistic! :)
 
Absolutely agree, Sullla! Glad you said it first :)

The game looks to be progressing great, I like most, but not all, of the changes mentioned in the article.

We all need to just remember the game is still in the PRODUCTION STAGE, everything that you see in the screens now will most likely change -- does anyone remember the old Civ 3 screens when first released? They looked very different to the current game now. EDIT: Example from Gamespot:

civilization_screen001.jpg


A lot of games have alplha/beta test screenshots like these, you see it with the vast majority of games months, or years, away from release. Lets just wait until we play the game or get at least a month or so away from release before we all jump on the 'the graphics look horrible' bandwagon. Besides, the graphics in CIV3 are nothing to gloat about either and we all love the game regardless.
 
Seriously, I LOVE the graphics. Although 'eye candy' is less important than gameplay, I confess that it is so much nicer to play if its 'easy on the eye'!
Now, I am sorry if I have come across as intensely negative-I only do it BECAUSE I have such high expectations of Firaxis and the Civ franchise. I have bought, played and-eventually-LOVED every game in the series, and had I seen this info from any other game producer, I probably would have not been bothered-but this is FIRAXIS!!!!
Anyway, as I have said elsewhere, if they simply abandoned the idea of a unit-based espionage system, and brought in a more fun and productive form of abstract espionage system-then I would probably enjoy this game even MORE than I have Civ3 (which is REALLY saying something ;)!)
Well, that and abandoning this overly PC attitude towards sabotage!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
Guagle said:
I have the feeling that only the leaders of foreign nations will be 'angry' or 'pleased' by your choices in the game and not the leader of your civ (yourself!). I guess they took that from SMAC where leaders had built-in personalities and definite prferences about how an empire should be managed.

eg. You find yourself at the head of the pacifist theology of Egypt and Bismarck becomes angry at you because, say, he doesn't like pacifist types...

I guess that's what they are doing and I'm not too happy about it because it may mean that certain civs will tend to follow the same paths. Maybe that's why they included two leaders for some civs?

You're right, checked it in the article :blush: . Nevertheless I don't believe this will turn out to be a bad idea; hasn't been in SMAC, won't be in cIV...

Sullla: You are absolutely right! As I mentioned, personally I like the graphics I've seen so far and I love a lot of the ideas and implementations in the game. I'll be in stores as soon as IT will be, I'll wait for a patch or two ;) and will become addicted in a shocking short period of time, just as it had been with civ1,2,SMAC,civ3............ :mischief:
I really believe cIV will be a step in the right direction, even if the journey won't be over!
 
Aussie_Lurker said:
Anyway, as I have said elsewhere, if they simply abandoned the idea of a unit-based espionage system, and brought in a more fun and productive form of abstract espionage system-then I would probably enjoy this game even MORE than I have Civ3 (which is REALLY saying something ;)!)
Could be also that spies will simply replace scouts, explorers and conquistadors as reconnaissance units and abstract espionage system will remain intact...
 
The more I read, the more I see many features from CtP making it into Civ4 - hopefully they took the best of CtP, best of Civ3, cut out the bad stuff and added new wonderful things, and will release without too many bugs, and this could be really great!
 
You were quicker than me on this, narmox. Having some features from CtP and others from Civ 2 (spies are great! That's what one of the major complaints I have against Civ 3) should definitely make a nice new version of Civ!
 
I wonder if I should mention this at all, but since I'm the one who posted this first, I feel like I have a responsibility to correct my error, if it was an error.

mudblood said:
I count 16 civs from the various sources we've seen (names of cities on screen shots, reports of civs from various mags, and now IGN), which would mean the following, if those represented who was in, and they haven't decided to get rid of anybody:

Arabs
America
Aztecs
China
Egypt
England
France
Germany
Inca
India
Japan
Mali
Mongols
Persia
Russia
Spain

Plus Rome & Greece?

Something doesn't quite add up here. The new (Gamespot) screenshots have cities named 'Cherokee' and 'Agade'. Which would imply that the Cherokee and the Bablyonians were in the game (but is that wrong?). But then .... um ... where do you put in Rome and Greece?? Obviously there's a mistaken assumption somewhere. But where? Arabs and such were thought in (not just by me) because Mecca and other capitals showed up in earlier screenshots (and honestly, how can you have Islam without the Arabs??). The Mongols were thought in because someone said that Genghis Khan is a leader. Should we not assume civs are in unless someone explicitly tells us? or are Rome and Greece not in the game?

Obviously by putting in new civs, they're going to make people unhappy by removing old civs. Someone's going to be hurt. But who and why?
 
I think we shouldn't take the interviews literally. In the last interview, it said "civs that are left for expansions such as (!!) the Inca or Aztecs". That lets me assume that one of them is out for the Cherokee (or North America?, which would be a bad solution!).

We have seen many hoplites, so I presume, the Greeks are also definately in.

So we have babylon left to be put in somehow.

three options:
  • The number of civs which are said to be in varies, so maybe 20 is ok (which would also be an even number)
  • the Aztecs from whom we haven't seen a city yet (the only civ If I remember correctly), are replaced by Babylon/Mesopotamia.
  • They haven't decided yet on the final civs and have put in some too much (like Babylon, Spain, Cherokee, Mali or so), and then cut some out again. (It's not that much work to put them quickly in with leader name and city list, probably me thinks).

mfG mitsho
 
My obligatory comments:

I think the graphics look absolutely fantastic. The "world view" rules. As for the relative size of the units -- to me, this is relatively unimportant, as it's purely cosmetic. It's the gameplay and core mechanics that we should be worried about (IMO).
 
Fewer units? What are they going to take out? Likely I think we going to go back to 1 type of tank for the entire game, no jet fighter, 1 archer type, basically less upgrades of units which I don't like. :(
 
I thought, he said more basical unit. the war elephant for everybody, horse archers he mentionned too, plus the missionary and the spy, no no, the number of units rises... :)

mitsho
 
mitsho said:
I thought, he said more basical unit. the war elephant for everybody, horse archers he mentionned too, plus the missionary and the spy, no no, the number of units rises... :)

mitsho
I am sorry, but I doubt that. Though it would be great... But he said:
In order to streamline the process as much as possible and to highlight the new promotion system, we decided to actually reduce the number of units some.
He didn't say anything about basic units or so. Perhaps they will reduce UUs and have only UUs for each culture group which will reduce the overall amount of units drastically. So if they reduce the number of units only "some" then they could even add new types of units while reducing the overall number.
 
That could be a possibility, but I somehow doubt it. They want to have different civs (the concept all approved in civ3, traits, uu', etc.), and now they cut it?

Yeah, it's possible. But isn't is difficult to find one uu for the America culture group, or even the European one? It's easier for Mediterannea, but well... .
But I'm sure, the units I mentionned above are added,.. let's drink tea and wait.

mitsho
 
"Units can gain experience and level up, and then you can assign it special bonuses, such as enhancing its urban combat ability, or give them bonuses against mounted units, and so on."

So, while there may be less predefined units, once these babies get experienced the number of minor unit variations jumps up.
 
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