Immortal OCC (PART III)
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- Start date
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Start is good but Churchill is blurb.
Settled t1 to make sure to spot the food.
@ 1AD :
Edit :
Action burgers !
Got dogpiled @ 375 AD :
Settled t1 to make sure to spot the food.
@ 1AD :
Spoiler :
Edit :
Action burgers !
Got dogpiled @ 375 AD :
Spoiler :
Okay, Immortal OCC is too difficult for me. I usually play normal Emperor. I managed to just get to Rifling first, but there wasn't sufficient window to knock someone out with them. I think I should have done some more bribing earlier to let the AI fight each other.
obsolete
Deity
Phew... gave this another run, and tried to experiment by going partial conquest... I succeeded but it took FOREVER.... I think from now on I'll probably just keep going for the space race instead, haw!
I also made things harder for myself by wiping out a nearby AI, only to let someone else get more territory which gave me more problems than it was worth....
Sneak Peak:
Too bad mech-infantry don't come with Blitz...
I also made things harder for myself by wiping out a nearby AI, only to let someone else get more territory which gave me more problems than it was worth....
Sneak Peak:
Spoiler :
Too bad mech-infantry don't come with Blitz...
RedKirrHelper
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2015
- Messages
- 22
One of the reasons why I don't like warring.
Anyway, nice job! Did you try Deity OCC games? If yes, what it your success rate there? It looks that at Immortal OCC you can beat anything)
obsolete
Deity
I never tried deity OCC games, since I used to think that was cheating... being able to put multiple mini-wonders in your capital and all. Ahah! Now I'll have to re-think on that...
I made things harder on myself here than I needed... I kept re-learning things the hard way... such as captured cities getting 60% cultural defense the second they come out of revolt... That feels so wrong...
I also noticed when you vassal an AI... they STOP making settlers... meanwhile if you continue to war against them, they are off busy building billions of settlers even when they SHOULD be making military units.... ughhh.
Seems Firaxis did this on purpose to screw over the human player yet again? A way to show off what a smart AI they have? Or is there some valid reason to this? When a civ has ANY room to expand into... settlers is always a high priority... So...... why should they stop when vassaled? What logical reason for this aside from screwing over the human player who is trying to get his vassals up to power?
There seemed almost no point to vassaling for OCC at all here...They refused to fill any room I left them, and refused to even properly defend themselves against other AI. Of course if I however tried to attack them... then they fight tooth & nail and settler spam everything....
I made things harder on myself here than I needed... I kept re-learning things the hard way... such as captured cities getting 60% cultural defense the second they come out of revolt... That feels so wrong...
I also noticed when you vassal an AI... they STOP making settlers... meanwhile if you continue to war against them, they are off busy building billions of settlers even when they SHOULD be making military units.... ughhh.
Seems Firaxis did this on purpose to screw over the human player yet again? A way to show off what a smart AI they have? Or is there some valid reason to this? When a civ has ANY room to expand into... settlers is always a high priority... So...... why should they stop when vassaled? What logical reason for this aside from screwing over the human player who is trying to get his vassals up to power?
There seemed almost no point to vassaling for OCC at all here...They refused to fill any room I left them, and refused to even properly defend themselves against other AI. Of course if I however tried to attack them... then they fight tooth & nail and settler spam everything....
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
760 AD, Oxford done :
Spoiler :
obsolete
Deity
Start to Finish
Been busy, with me still being on holidays and all for another week. lawl.
Been busy, with me still being on holidays and all for another week. lawl.
Spoiler :
Have you ever tried gifting them settlers/units?
obsolete
Deity
Ummm......
This is OCC....
......
You can't build settlers in OCC... as it would defeat the whole point of being OCC.
This is OCC....
......
You can't build settlers in OCC... as it would defeat the whole point of being OCC.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
After playing 3 games along the same strategy, we can assert that March Rifles --> Infantries can reliably wrap the game by turn 250.
Roughly 1000 AD Rifling, 1300 AD Assembly Line.
Of course, you need commerce to do so.
Biology is a low priority tech. Wonders, Bureaucracy, cottages and multipliers are what you need.
There is no way that banking on National Park specialists gets you to the end game any faster. Given Bureaucracy, a Town and a Forest preserve specialist are about equal anyway.
I want to play a last one to get faster Oxford University.
Not sure I'll play any more of this format afterwards because it's all very repetitive..
Roughly 1000 AD Rifling, 1300 AD Assembly Line.
Of course, you need commerce to do so.
Biology is a low priority tech. Wonders, Bureaucracy, cottages and multipliers are what you need.
There is no way that banking on National Park specialists gets you to the end game any faster. Given Bureaucracy, a Town and a Forest preserve specialist are about equal anyway.
Spoiler :
I want to play a last one to get faster Oxford University.
Not sure I'll play any more of this format afterwards because it's all very repetitive..
obsolete
Deity
A town requires so many wasted turns trying to convert a crappy tile into a town.. which can instantly be destroyed by someone... not to mention does not even contribute to GPPs... among other problems.
Anyhow, I still got lots of time on my hands until later on this month, so I may re-play this one over AGAIN and try something new... Maybe a contest to see how many generals can be won... while still WINNING the game. AHAH... or maybe not... as that would only last till the time-victory forced the milking to end.
We could also trying making it HARDER... and setting AI to ALWAYS WAR against the human... What do you think?
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
What do I think ?
Errr... I think I've tried to play IMM AW already and I wouldn't want OCC in that format.
Immortal AW, even with a HoF type of map requires some extra high level of focus to just not be lost. I'm not even talking about winning, there. Just talking about not losing. And I'm just talking about me ^^
I may be up for it but this is the sort of map I could try to generate for myself. It's mostly the amount of focus that's required that's an issue. Those maps are so easy to lose...
Well, it's been a while. I've gotten some Snaaty-like insight since then (kill 'em in da jungle !!!). I practiced a bit my unit management, too. Maybe I could do it... Though probably not to a happy ending.
IMM+ AW is clearly outside of my sphere of comfort... or zone of confidence, however you name it.
ps : @ the town :
for 2 Bureaucracy riverside hamlets, you get the yield of 3 pops running :
farm, farm, Representation specialist.
--> If you rely on Rep specs, you need population *1,5 to get the same research rate as that from riverside, Bureau hamlets.
So size 18 Representation specialists gets the yield of size 12 riverside Bureau hamlets... All other things being equal ( = base food surplus).
A town needs time to mature but it isn't like the competing options are any better. And towns pillage is a huge blowout, yes.
You spoke of diminishing returns first. Settling GPs incurrs diminishing returns, like... drastically : they cost ever more to yield for ever fewer turns.
Provided enough World Wonders, you can generate enough GPs just fine, hiring a couple of scientists here and there (food surplus dependent).
Does it make a difference if one produces 15 or 19 GPs
Isn't there something like the last 4 GPs cost just as much as the 1st 15 ? (I know this is exaggerated, I don't know the actual numbers)
Moreover... the last 4 GPs, coming in the final turns of the game, are the least useful, right ?
Early commerce trumps late GPs. Maybe not for Space but clearly so for Conquest.
Does the late game insane gpp from the National Park justify delaying getting there by dozens of turns ? I can't see it.
pps :
I don't want to say that going all cottages is best, here. And this is all with having fastest OCC Pangaea Conquest in mind.
1st, you need a healthy food surplus to run cottages (at least +8 food). So farms can have their use.
2nd, it's possible some level of bulbing is optimal.
What one is looking for is :
- earliest Rifling ;
- with the means to 1-turn units.
Errr... I think I've tried to play IMM AW already and I wouldn't want OCC in that format.
Immortal AW, even with a HoF type of map requires some extra high level of focus to just not be lost. I'm not even talking about winning, there. Just talking about not losing. And I'm just talking about me ^^
I may be up for it but this is the sort of map I could try to generate for myself. It's mostly the amount of focus that's required that's an issue. Those maps are so easy to lose...
Well, it's been a while. I've gotten some Snaaty-like insight since then (kill 'em in da jungle !!!). I practiced a bit my unit management, too. Maybe I could do it... Though probably not to a happy ending.
IMM+ AW is clearly outside of my sphere of comfort... or zone of confidence, however you name it.
ps : @ the town :
for 2 Bureaucracy riverside hamlets, you get the yield of 3 pops running :
farm, farm, Representation specialist.
--> If you rely on Rep specs, you need population *1,5 to get the same research rate as that from riverside, Bureau hamlets.
So size 18 Representation specialists gets the yield of size 12 riverside Bureau hamlets... All other things being equal ( = base food surplus).
A town needs time to mature but it isn't like the competing options are any better. And towns pillage is a huge blowout, yes.
You spoke of diminishing returns first. Settling GPs incurrs diminishing returns, like... drastically : they cost ever more to yield for ever fewer turns.
Provided enough World Wonders, you can generate enough GPs just fine, hiring a couple of scientists here and there (food surplus dependent).
Does it make a difference if one produces 15 or 19 GPs
Isn't there something like the last 4 GPs cost just as much as the 1st 15 ? (I know this is exaggerated, I don't know the actual numbers)
Moreover... the last 4 GPs, coming in the final turns of the game, are the least useful, right ?
Early commerce trumps late GPs. Maybe not for Space but clearly so for Conquest.
Does the late game insane gpp from the National Park justify delaying getting there by dozens of turns ? I can't see it.
pps :
I don't want to say that going all cottages is best, here. And this is all with having fastest OCC Pangaea Conquest in mind.
1st, you need a healthy food surplus to run cottages (at least +8 food). So farms can have their use.
2nd, it's possible some level of bulbing is optimal.
What one is looking for is :
- earliest Rifling ;
- with the means to 1-turn units.
obsolete
Deity
Do you remember when me, Snaaty, Topaz, etc... did that deity Always-War game, and we won that succession game to victory? That was deity my friend....
Granted, with events on we popped a good tech from an early hut and were able to do an ironworking--> metalcasting gambit... and raped them slowly from there. On the other hand, the events screwed us badly IRC because it caused one of the AI's to dow on another despite they were all fighting us.... and this caused one to grab so much more territory which gave us our #1 problem.... I really DO HATE EVENTS!
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
No, I think I was a noobster back then and didn't know about either whipping or this forum 
I have huge respect for such S-class players, though. S as in Special, as in "of their own".
I'm not a trusting man when reasoning is an alternative. But when a Snaaty will speak his mind, I'll do my best to read between the lines.
(You've taught me a lot, by the way, with such concise and definitive statements as :
"One only needs so much production to win a map.")
I have huge respect for such S-class players, though. S as in Special, as in "of their own".
I'm not a trusting man when reasoning is an alternative. But when a Snaaty will speak his mind, I'll do my best to read between the lines.
(You've taught me a lot, by the way, with such concise and definitive statements as :
"One only needs so much production to win a map.")
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