Immortal University 93 - Louis XIV

[lymond]

Having played this, settling on cow is not a "weak" play.

 

[Tempesta13]

Anyways about this game... well I found out the hard way that vassalisation is enabled and that's an option I disabled in my training long before Immortal difficulty mode. It really miffs me the way I can have a civilization on its knees and then they go and capitulate themselves to some 'pleased' friend of mine and suddenly we're at war. Ugggh.

But if the big players (that's you guys) think vassals are yummy i guess i'll try it. Anyways with hindsight on my side I think I'm going to start this game over and this time fight the whole war before feudalism comes into play.

That's screwed up many games for many a people here. There can be ways to avoid this or, at the very least, know when to expect it. Others know more about the code than I but here's my thoughts: They won't capitulate until they've lost a bunch of units and a couple cities. Usually they'll be willing to capitulate to someone else when they are also willing to capitulate to you. This means you get first dibs. After you kill a bunch of units or after you take each city check if they are willing. If you don't want to capitulate them yet you are risking them doing it to someone else IF.....

They (I would guess) have to have decent relations with another AI (pleased/friendly) and ALSO that AI needs to be able to declare war on you. This depends on who it is since a lot of AIs won't declare on you if they are pleased with you, others need to be friendly with you to avoid it. There is a list on these forums somewhere that shows who will declare war at pleased and who won't.

If they are pleased with you (and you haven't done this within 20-30 turns) you can beg some amount of gold under 100 (I usually try 90 but you can even just beg 1 gold to be safe) and they probably will give it to you. This means you have another 10 turns before they can declare war on you - which means they cannot take your target as your vassal for awhile.

Lastly, you can also avoid this by getting your "ally" involved in something. If they have "too much on their hands" they won't take on a vassal that drags them into a war. That means if they are already plotting war they won't do it, or if you can bribe them to attack someone, or even bribe someone else to attack them, then you can avoid it as well.

If you are going to continue to play with this option turned on it definitely pays off to keep an eye on it - it's good to check what the AIs think of each other anyway cause starting wars and figuring out who's trading with who is helpful stuff.

 

[Izuul]

Having played this, settling on cow is not a "weak" play.

Just judging by the fact that there are numerous people on both sides of the issue, i would say either play is probably fine.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Immortal, Normal Speed, No Huts, No Events, upto 1 AD.

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I moved the warrior 1 SW to see what we have down there. I decided to settle in place as I didn't see a reason to burn the cow or lose a turn by moving into forest.

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Ran into Hatshepsut on turn three. Julius Caesar, Catherine and Hammurabi all showed up in quick succession. Since Hatty was awfully close I decided on going for a Horse Archer rush. Build was worker -> Warrior to size three, settler to settle the Horse, Corn and Gold to the NW. Tech path was Mining, AH, BW an Writing. (Gold helps ) After this I straight teched HBR. Built a library in both cities and got to HBR on turn 61. Since I was teching quickly and had lots of forests, I teched Math before Archery while settling two more cities and chopping out Barracks and Stables in the interim.

I accepted this demand as Hatty is not liked and is going to die soon anyway.

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I self-teched Alpha on turn 91 as the AIs were derping around again. And of course, Cathy shows up the very turn I tech Alpha to make this demand.

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I gave in. Note to self : Kill Cathy. Painfully.

Wheeled and dealed:

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By turn 85 I had 10 Horse Archers and was almost ready to strike. (Only one group was in place and another was in transit). But Hatty took a Barb city right on my borders and lost her stack of WCs in the process. It was defended by only a badly injured WC. So....

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I moved a Chariot that was playing barb defence in the area and took the city.

Cities fell quickly.

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This warrants mention as Hatty settled this city ON the gold tile.

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I have seen AIs do this with gold and silver before. This really ticks me off. Even if a gold or silver tile has no food at all, wouldn't it be better to just settle next to it and keep the city size one for eternity working that tile? What's the point of settling on the gold?

Reduced Hatty to one city in 425 BC and took peace for techs.

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Didn't need to do that, but why leave techs on the table?

I rushed a few Horse Archers to pick up this Barb city as Hammi seemed to want to settle in the area.

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I wanted to take it and seal off the South East of the continent for myself.

But of course Cathy settles in there.

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Note to self: Kill Cathy. Painfully, slowly and in all manners of amusing fashion.

Redeclared on hatty and wiped her off in 100 BC to get rid of the motherland unhappiness.

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Tech situation at 1 AD.

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JC is in war mode. I can't tell who he is going to hit as he's Pleased with both Hammy and Cathy and doesn't have any demerits with either. I am not a target as we had a peace treaty when he started plotting.

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If he hits Cathy, I am definitely dogpiling.

Priorities now are to recover my economy that's hurting a bit, spawn a scientist for academy in Paris and maybe another for Thebes, tech to Compass for trade bait, wheel and deal to stay in the tech race, settle all my land and kill Cathy. Did I mention kill Cathy?

 

[Smilingrogue]

Won Domination 1665 AD. Things got a little hairy for a while, but I pulled it off.

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Things weren't very interesting for a bit. I settled a couple cities to seal off my land, lost the pyramids but landed the Great Library in 450 AD.

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I built it in Thebes as I cottaged it and it acted as a nice complement to Paris for teching purposes.

Trades were hard to come by as Cath and Hammy were teching quite quickly and JC wouldn't trade with me as I hit his WFYABTA cap and he is a pain in the butt to get to friendly. Compass helped a bit.

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But I was still quite a bit backwards and I felt very unsure about winning Lib.

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So I burnt a Great Scientist on a Golden Age, double switched to Bureaucracy and Caste and kicked out four straight scientists. They double bulbed Education, one bulbed Philo and another bulb into Liberalism secured it for me in 1050 AD.

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I lost the Taj to Hammy by four turns in 1100 AD though

Hanni met me in 1100 AD. Since Taj is gone, I traded away Nationalism to Hanni.

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This gave me the circumnavigation bonus without ever building more than Work boats!

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1170 AD, I decided to dial Cathy up and introduce her to my little friends. Bribed JC in as Cathy was pretty big by now, having settled land that was probably supposed to be settled by us but I didn't get around to settling it as it wasn't too appealing and I was off killing Hatty and taking her land instead.

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War didn't go as quickly as I would have liked it to as I didn't manage to upgrade many Horse Archers and War Elephants to Cuirs. By 1280 AD Cathy was willing to capitulate. So I pulled JC off and begged gold for a peace treaty so he can't cap her and declare on me.

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Took one more city off her to relieve cultural pressure on my captured cities and took her capitulation in 1290 AD.

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That felt good!

Hammi was creeping towards Rifling. So he was next in 1300AD. Akkad and Babylon were a nice catch.

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After that, I capitulated him in 1440 AD.

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I got lucky as he didn't bribe JC in. (There were still 6 turns left in the peace treaty I took earlier, but it ran out during the war.)

Next up was JC. He too was close to rifles, but his stack was sitting right on Cath's borders. So...

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I took a couple of cities and wiped his stack out and he got to rifling. So I got out of the war and started working towards Cannons.

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Went back for JC in 1605 AD with Cannons, Rifles and Cavs and capitulated him in 1655 AD after taking two cities.

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I was now at 63% land. So I put all cities on wealth and cranked up the culture slider for two turns and won Domination in 1665 AD.

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Final demographics:

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Statistics:

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Thanks a lot for the map, Klonoklown!

 

[klonoklown]

Monarch NH/NE ~1600 AD

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SIP, expanded to 6 cities then teched to construction to axe and catapult rush hatty. I think I stole about 8 workers off her! Took her out completely, while staying friends with Cathy, Hammy and JC. Expanded to 11 cities, had a good tech rate going, and just decided to go to rifling and stomp with Cavs.

Hammy was the first victim because he made some ignorant demands and was annoyed with me. Took him out, then JC fell. I think it was about 26 cities I came up with, my power was sky high compared to the other AI, I found HC and Hannibal by now. I have about 50 cavs could wipe out Cathy easily then skip over to Hannibal and HC. I basically think the game is won by now. Time to make the next IU.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Vassals cut both ways. They're quite the broken mechanic, and when used to potential having 1-2 all but ensures a W.

 

[Dubioza]

Hellow IU

I'll try to...no, not to play on Immortal but to play faster & write shorter posts then usual.

Its still Emperor Normal NHNE

1280 BC

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Sip'd, teched AH-Mining-BW, started with worker. Met Hatty, Cathy & Hammy to T22, scouted SE-E-N-W.
AH revealed horses between Hatty & me, so I thought - let's try to chariot rush her, what if these are her horses?

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Worker improved corn-cows-gold and built road on gold before BW. Budd went in 3680 & Hindu in 3400, none Hatty's. Built only 1 warrior to size 3, then settler - he was done in T34, followed by worker. Research Pottery-Writing and when settler was on his way, revolted to Slavery.

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In T37 settled Orleans - Hatty's settler was on cows, he turned around and settled 3S of cows. It looks like I might be right about those horses! Built barracks in both cities, in Paris whipped granary, finishing barracks next turn. And started whipping & chopping chariots.

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In 2120 Hatty founded Judaism and I went Oracle route: Myst-Poly-Priest. SH went in 2000, last chariot in 1720. Turn later I declared with 8 chariots and took her worker.

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She had 1 archer in Thebes and Memphis, so they fell with 1 lost chariot each, in 1640 and 1600. One more; I positioned my chariots so she can't work hammer tiles and waited for it to grow to size 2. Yes she worked grassland for 2-0-0, not even fish for 2-0-2.

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Whipped and double chopped settler in Paris into Oracle. Settled Lyons and teched Fishing-Aesth.

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In 1280 she's gone. I plan to settle 2 more cities and hopefully find some food around eastern gold&stone. I'm not gonna settle cities without food resources and 0-food-gold-tiles. It's just not worth it.

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Oracle will be done next turn. Industrious forges would be nice - otoh, this looks like good map to try CoL's specs economy, decent food around. Time to decide, to cottage or farm? Thebes has some cottages already, maybe I should cottage Thebes and Paris.

EDIT: Crap, just noticed Lyons doesn't have trade route. I need more workers!
Note: ToA is for fail-gold, change to worker in 2 turns!

 

[Keilah]

@dubioza:

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I'd cottage a bit (the cap at least) and focus on expanding into all that land instead of going for specialist teching.

 

[Dubioza]

@Keilah

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Yeah, Paris is good cottage site, Thebes is as well. And they both already have helper cities around. I was referring to if I should oracle CoL instead MC for specs economy as I still haven't tried it.
And I just saw I could've razed that city I waited to grow to size 2 and settle fish-gold. But I didn't see gold before! Nevermind then I can still share that fish or corn.

 

[Doshin]

I played this one through to 250 AD. I don't think I have time to finish it off, but wanted to thank klonoklown for the map.

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250 AD, 18 cities, and the economy is just about up and running. With the Great Library, I should win Lib, although I don't think I can take anything impressive.

As you can probably tell, I made Hatchet's life a misery, declaring war a couple of times. Hammy, Catherine, and J.C. are now all at Pleased, and I think JC and Catherine will declare war against Hammurabi, if they declare against anyone (Hatchet peace vassaled to Hammy, no-one likes Hatchet).

With 17 Horse Archers already built, the future course to victory should be pretty clear.

 

[Dubioza]

675 BC

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This is harder then starting screen suggested. So I got the Oracle (MC) and I planed to expand some 2-3-4 cities asap, but after I chariot-rushed Egypt I got barb surprises as I didn't have enough units to fog-bust.

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And there's no happy resources around; maybe I should've switch research from Aest to Monarchy and garrison a lot. I built 1 or 2 forges, but with all those barbs I built mostly chariots (for spears too ), some workers and 1 library in Orleans which is working scientists. Only now am producing 3 settlers.

So, what would you do? Expand and keep cities at sizes 4-5-6 until I expand to some calendar resources or use HR?

 

[Doshin]

@Dubioza

Whip a Settler in one of Egypt's former cities. Settle on top of the stone, and make sure the city is hooked up to the trade network in advance.

Start a good production city on a Forge. Whip the Forge the turn before you plan to settle and then overflow into the Pyramids. With the Forge, Stone, and Industrious leader, it won't take long to build.

For happiness, 2-pop whip Settlers close to 69 and OF into a Forge (+1 with Gold). Grow back and stagnate again on a Settler. The Mids will then complete, and you can switch into Hereditary Rule or Representation.

 

[Dubioza]

Thanks! Got scarred for a moment with all this land to fill and no happy near, it could take forever to come to some calendar resource. I actually played some and did something like you said; only settled 1E of stone, but had roads to city location before settler came and 3 workers ready to build quarry. I might have to whip one more worker into 'mids tho.

Barbs really screwed me, luckily I didn't loose any city, but had over 30 turns whip-unhappiness in couple of cities.

Edit: My God, I totally forgot about +3 happy in 5 biggest cities Luckily I chose to build 'mids!

 

[Dubioza]

350 AD

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Just a quick update so you know I still play it

I was worried about happiness and then silver popped near Orleans; got 'mids in 275 BC and with Rep & forges I now have health issues while happiness is +5 or so

Made double switch to Rep&OR, altho OR is still not of any use - all AI's I met are hindu so I still didn't convert; maybe I should do it now, for relations?

Got Colossus in 1 AD when I had 11 cities (only 3 coastal but it took only 10 turns to build it and it helped a lot!). Cathy is rexing as fast as me - maybe I shouldn't have killed Hatty and let her settle more so I can take more while still settling mine.

Another mistake; I oracled MC and researched Aesth for trades - but no one got Alpha, so I had to research it myself. So first trades were in AD's (Hunt, IW, Arch (begged Cathy), Mon, Math, Calender) - but got TGLib & Parth.

Bulbed Philo in 200 AD - I still haven't met last 2 AI's, someone somewhere got Conf & Christ pretty early, in 400 BC & 75 BC.

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I'm going for Music (2-3 turns away) and will trade Construction soon; altho there is some 3-4-5 cities NE of empire to settle, after Constr I think I'll switch to war-mode.

 

[blunderwonder]

Gonna play this later, maybe ill do as well as izuul but i doubt it

will be my first IU game so wish me luck

 

[blunderwonder]

well, for some reason it wont let me log into photobucket, so ill just tell you what happend

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i missed oracle by alot, but then it didnt matter because i didnt really prioritize it, i also went pottery -> writing and skipped ah for a bit. I settled in place, another city to the north with the gold/cows/corn in it, a city to south settled on the horses, captured barb city that had sheep/rice/wine all in bfc, i put one last city to the west with dye/corn.

I usually play small/tiny maps so i didnt realize how many citys i would need... also hatty got hinduism early in my game, before i had a stack of HA's big enough to attack really, so i just said screw it, grabbed Glib and blah blah fast foward past a few culture battles in 2 cities where i built silly things like theatre's and temples to keep them from snagging my cows in one city and corn in another.

960 AD i lib MT, and start researching gunpowder while i have one city spamming HA'S and the rest building wealth to upgrade the stack of HA's I already had. 1070 AD i have a stack of 25 cuirs, and 5 or 6 cats. cathy had the most land and was the closest to rifleing so i went after her, unfortunately... It was dumb to go after the biggest player on the map (also the one with the most pop) with one of the smallest civs myself. everyone was hindu and pleased or above with me so there was no worry really of backstab. Issue was even after i demolished her big stack, and stole 2 cities on the first move of the attack she had like 10 or 11 cities to my 5... anyway it wasnt until 1490 AD that she finally cap'd, and im behind in techs now, I am the only civ with rifling, but pretty much every other civ has at least grenadiers/cannons. Im now the leader in land now though, so i should roll over hatty pretty fast in 3 or 4 turns when i can upgrade all my cuirs, and its almost a certain win at this point but the last bit is going to be slow and painful because it took me a bit to long to get cuirs due to lack in civ size in retrospect, i should have waited for hatty to finish mids, and then just gone after her even with the -1 modifier from the others in the religion. I spent a fair amount of time in pacifism so that i could double bulb education. I also messed up i guess... i didnt even meet 2 of the civs till after 1450ad, hannibal and the other guy didnt even come near me till i was almost at rifleing so the entire game i missed out on the opportunity to trade with them.

anyway, at this point, a few to put a dent in hattys big stacks, and i should only need to capture 3 or 4 citys to cap her, and Jc should be equally weak. hopefully it wont be a bad as i imagine it will be...

 

[Dubioza]

Use [ SPOILER ] (text here) [ /SPOILER ] signs (Without spaces) if content is...well, spoilery. Like revealing opponents an'stuff.

Thanks!

 

[klonoklown]

^ Yes please add spoilers.

 

[Dubioza]

1130 AD

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Quick update;

Continued as planned, started GAge in 540 AD, only without MoM - as Cathy built it earlier. Converted to hindu and swapped civics for unit production. Initial plan was to attack Hammy cause it looked simpler (one way in - west) and Cathy was settling jungle north of our empire, I thought to wait till she cuts it.

But MoM changed my mind, so in 760 AD I DoW'd her. On last day of GAge switched back civics to Rep & Bureau. In 940 AD I finally got to Moscow. She had 6 cities left, 2 east of Moscow - I wanted to capture those 2 and cap her; but JC capped her in 980 AD when I was next to last one.

Then I went for her west cities as well and deleted her just now. JC was sending some units my way, but I have 25 cities now on his 10 and 7-8 of mine are building only units. I'll take 10 turn peace now; just finished Nationalism and have GEngineer saved, so I'll hurry Taj. And just got GScientist (have GPriest saved too), for 24 turn GAge (or 25 if that info is correct - if you start GAge with GPeople and finish Taj while still in GAge).

I'm going Lib (MT), I'm not gonna risk it with 2 unknown AI's still out there. One of them built AP in 500 AD, so I researched Compass & Optics and started exploring.

Hope to trade for Guilds soon and after PTreaty ends, show up with Cavs at JC's doorstep.

Made a few mistakes here too, researched Currency way to late (450 AD) - I blame AI's slow research for it.
Didn't build enough happy buildings in time (CRE!), had some happiness issues cause that war lasted for too long.
And those jungle cities take soouu long to improve, I should've prepared more workers for it.

Quick question: If you capture city with MoM and start GAge while that city is still in revolution, will GAge be 8 or 12 turns?