Immortals

[megamanx06]

Just a question, what units can be upgraded to Immortals? I had one game where I used Sphener to capture a couple Grigori heroes (a Berserker and a Musket-dude-whose-name-I-can-never-spell), and I thought it would be cool since they were two of my most powerful units if they could be Immortals. But they're both Tier IV units.

If its not already this way, it might be cool to make Immortals a Tier V unit, so that anything could upgrade to them. That way you could get your most powerful troops to be immortal regardless of what they are. It could also allow the Amurites to upgrade their Archmages to immortals to get undieing archmages (since the Chanelling III would transfer.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Champions (including all Champion UUs but the Iron Golem) upgrade to Immortals, and thus so can any unit that can upgrade to a Champion can upgrade to an Immortal too.

(Note that Orkish Axemen cannot upgrade to their Ogre Champion UU, the Clan only has one choice in what to upgrade to their Ogre Warchief Immortal UU. The Luchuirp of course use Golems which cannot be upgraded, so their Bone Golem Immortal UU can and must be built directly.)


Elohim Monks can also upgrade to Immortals (or Paladins) in FfH, but that is a relatively recent change so it is not included in some modmods, including FF.



(In my version, Amurite Wizards can upgrade to Immortals. The Sheaim still have NONE as their Immortal UU, but my Eaters of Dreams get the Immortal Promotion whenever they use their Consume Soul Ability. My Liches are also inherently immortal, but Lichdom requires the Tower of Necromancy. The Hippus have a Mounted Immortal UU, but even though it is unitcombat_mounted it must still be upgraded from a champion. I considered making mounted units upgrade to it instead, but that would either require a lot of UUs with no real changed from the normal unit or it would allow Tolerant trait leaders to get 8 immortals, 4 per unitclass.)

 

[jacomanring]

Off Topic:

Amurite Wizards can upgrade to Immortals.[...]...but my Eaters of Dreams get the Immortal Promotion whenever they use their Consume Soul Ability. My Liches are also inherently immortal, but Lichdom requires the Tower of Necromancy.

Wow, those are really cool changes!! Should be implemented in both original FFH and FF imho!
...or are you going to release a Magister Fall Even Further perhaps...?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I eventually plan to release a new version of my Magister Modmod, but am much too busy with school to work on it now. I've come close to releasing new versions several times, but always end up breaking it somehow or else abandoning one version to start another once a new version of FfH or FF comes out.

I'd like to base it off of Xienwolf's code (perhaps making a few SDK/schema changes, but only very minor ones as my C++ skills are rather limited; I'll likely also try to merge in some things from Opera's Enhanced Leaders Orbis modmod, specifically those things that were done because I suggested them), but there are a lot of Fall Further features I don't really like. I'm a purist when it comes to the lore and I don't care for feature bloat, so none of the new civs and almost none of the new units or promotions will be included (although it shouldn't be all that hard for someone else to merge my modmod with FF). The task of stripping away all the new FF content while keeping the functionality seems rather tedious, which is why I did not get around to serious work on my modmod over the 2 week break between summer and fall semesters. If someone else were to release (and maintain) a "Fall Back" modmod that uses the FF source code but plays essentially the same as normal FfH then my modmod would come out a lot sooner.

 

[benana]

Remember that immortal is an actual unit, not just the promotion... if any unit could upgrade, then you could have your hunter or horse archer suddenly become a melee guy.
And yes, there are some cases where this happens anyway (warriors upgrading to archers, last I checked, or savants to adepts or disciples of leaves to scouts), but those tend to have at least some kind of explanation.

 

[Ekolite]

I'm a purist when it comes to the lore and I don't care for feature bloat, so none of the new civs and almost none of the new units or promotions will be included.

Off topic, but I completely agree about Fall Further. It's weakness is that everything is just too much. I can't stand any of the new civs, even the one for which I provided the original idea. I feel like it has all just spiralled out of control, and the standards of what is being let in are, in some cases quite low. If you were to release a modmod I think I would play it, most of your changes sound really good (except cross-sphere spells), and they also stick far more closely to the essential themes of the original, without as you say, feature bloat.

 

[dyx]

Well, I like the Austrin. I think they fit very well and just because they're not part of the original lore doesn't mean they don't fit. They're nothing super special like the Lizards, Jotnar or Scions who stand out from the vanilla civs, just another bunch of humans.
Maybe you can think about including the Austrin.
I can also see the Archos fitting with vanilla FFH, but mainly because there's the Spiderkin unit.
I also don't like the rest of the civs... but I do like features like those corporations, the Silver Circle wonder (or rather the travelling wizards) and the trading boats. And some others, but I also think it adds way too much... I end up playing FF because the things I like I don't want to miss.

So, yeah, Immortals... has been answered.

 

[Tasunke]

I definitely would like to try a Magister's Modmod

 

[Annex]

Off topic, but I completely agree about Fall Further. It's weakness is that everything is just too much. I can't stand any of the new civs, even the one for which I provided the original idea. I feel like it has all just spiralled out of control, and the standards of what is being let in are, in some cases quite low. If you were to release a modmod I think I would play it, most of your changes sound really good (except cross-sphere spells), and they also stick far more closely to the essential themes of the original, without as you say, feature bloat.

I hate to move this thread ot, but I gotta say that I agree. I didnt even think there were people who felt the same way. I have moded FfH II somewhat, but for the most part I think its better. A Magister Modmod would be fun to play though, im sure. No rush though.

 

[megamanx06]

Remember that immortal is an actual unit, not just the promotion... if any unit could upgrade, then you could have your hunter or horse archer suddenly become a melee guy.
And yes, there are some cases where this happens anyway (warriors upgrading to archers, last I checked, or savants to adepts or disciples of leaves to scouts), but those tend to have at least some kind of explanation.

Yes, I know they are a unit, and I know it would cause units to cross lines, but immortals aren't inherently melee units (even if they are classified as such for programming purposes), and that way you could get an immortal with subdue beast, or with channeling III, or with medic, or other class-specific abilities.

And yes, we all want to play Magisters Modmod, and anyone who thought they were alone in wanting to... well... you're not.