Imperial Or Metric?

[CoolioVonHoolio]

metric is so much easier. in science and in life thats all i use but living in america i have to know the other as well.

 

[Archer 007]

Metric system is far superior.

I can't imagine what sheer hell doing anything remotely scientific was before it.

As for the units being more human, I don't see how the centemeter isn't, I have a good visual idea of how big it is. (probobly better then I do an inch)

Aren't you from Minnesota?

 

[kryszcztov]

By the way, why are kilograms instead of newtons typically used for weight measurement of a person?

The kilogram is the standard unit for mass, the Newton is the standard unit for force. As a matter of fact, weight happens to be some kind of force (when you talk about forces related to gravity, ie. the force driven by the Earth's mass). One Newton is equal to one kilogram multiplied by one meter per square second. To know the force that the Earth pulls on your body (your "weight"), mutliply your mass in kilograms by 9.81 (the value of the Earth's gravitationnal acceleration at the sea level, in meters per square second). Yes, "weight" is a misused word in everyday's life.

The only thing I don't like is Celcius, because it only has 5 degrees for every 9 of F.

Do you need so many F's ? As for the weather, Celsius degrees are fine, I don't really care if it's 25 °C or 26 °C... As for body's temperature (when you're ill), well, we use floating numbers : 37.8 °C, 39.5 °C... And suddenly it becomes more precise than Farenheits.

 

[Ultima Dragoon]

Metric is so much easier to understand and work with than imperial.

 

[Elrohir]

The metric system truly is a better system, but I hate using it. It makes more sense logically and scientifically, but I didn't grow up using it, so I doubt I will ever be truly at east with it.

 

[Archer 007]

As for body's temperature (when you're ill), well, we use floating numbers : 37.8 °C, 39.5 °C... And suddenly it becomes more precise than Farenheits.

Actually, it doesn't, because we use decimal degrees for measure body temps ourselves.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Actually, it doesn't, because we use decimal degrees for measure body temps ourselves.

So decimals can be used in the imperial system ? Well, you're not already in the 21st century but congratulations to have reached finally the 17th century !

 

[sysyphus]

As an engineer, it's a no brainer to say that the metric system is far superior. Derived units such as Newtons and Pascals are directly derived from base units like metres and grams, this makes calculations much easier without relying on special conversion factors that are required with Imperial.

The fact that the British, the inventors of the Imperial system, have accepted metric is proof enough to its superiority.

Though Canada is officially metric, I wish Canadian industry would go the full distance and make it standard. At least I get my temperatures in Celcius and I drive in kilometres, but I'm tired of specing pipe in bloody inches!

 

[SeleucusNicator]

The metric system was devised by French rationalists, most of whom were scientists of one kind or another in their spare time. Naturally, they are going to design something that is relatively easy to work with mathematically.

I actually read an article (about a few minutes ago) where somebody argued that basing a system of weights and measures on 12 is superior to basing one on 10, because 12 is more divisible. But Imperial Units are not entirely based on 12.

However, I would firmly oppose any forced metrification in the United States, or, indeed, any government espousal of the metric system. American scientists use metric because they want to, the American industries that need to use metric (say, those that sell things to Europe) have voluntarily adopted metric as a way of increasing profit, etc. Those who need or want to use metric already do so. There is no need for the rest of the United States to be forced in that direction. Indeed, I would argue that government-supported or mandated adoption of metric would be a tragedy, sending the wrong message about our status in the world and our relationship with foreign lands.

 

[Sophie 378]

Both! I use metric for science/academic/maths/DIY stuff where you have to think, and imperial for ordinary every-day stuff like cooking and timing which I do instinctively.
Metric is so much more "sensible", and easier, for working stuff out in anything more complicated than fractions; but having been brought up on imperial, I think in miles, stones, pints, ounces etc. Some imperial things are really easy for cooking - like meringues, one egg white = 2oz sugar, or a cake recipe 1 egg = 2oz each of sugar, butter, flour. Compare that to 57g!

 

[Ultima Dragoon]

@Sophie 378: I use imperial for playing Warhammer and it's a lot easier to use metric.

 

[wit>trope]

Between the two metric is better. Within decimal numeral system, metric is best.

But decimal numeral system is not optimal.

Optimal numeral system is base 30

(this would not require memorizing more numerals because we could just use capital letters and four other symbols for the numerals -- and for other writing just not use capital letters like many languages that don't have separate lower case, upper case letters)

Base 30 has more unique factors: 2,3,5. And it will save lots of space. Also "percent" would become "perninehundred" and thus would be more accurate in practical terms (cuz we tend to limit "percent" to two digits)

Anyway, so in terms of what's absolute best, it would be a thirt-ric system.

 

[Elta]

meters for most things ...in practicality ..but they don't break down like that since Iam american (well I did do some school in mexico but still think in imperial)

as far as baking ...they don't sell scopers in metric system or print recipes in it

like I said all the other metric stuff is great but

Tempurature
F* all the way
(I live in vegas so being exact is very important ...your life very much depends on it in constrution ....a mexican in vegas doing constrution ...suprised? lol )

117 = your eyes are going to sting really bad ...most likley you will not be able to see let alone drive without good air conditioning ...anyone to young or old should stay in all day and anyone going outside should keep massive amounts just to survive

115 = constrution forced night work by goverment order

113 = drink a minam um half a gallon of water an hour

110 = take exterme caution with old/young people

105= avoid takeing young/old out durring mid day ( 11 to 5)

100 = stay well hydrated

95 = sun screen and water

90 = keep an eye on old/young

89 and under = Pleasnt


we had to review this every year in school ...and yea it's very important to be that accurate

 

[kryszcztov]

The metric system truly is a better system, but I hate using it. It makes more sense logically and scientifically, but I didn't grow up using it, so I doubt I will ever be truly at east with it.

EU 1-0 USA. Most Europeans recently converted themselves to the Euro currency. We had to change and we successfully did it. BTW, 1 Euro = 6.55957 Francs, quite a difficult conversion.

Actually, it doesn't, because we use decimal degrees for measure body temps ourselves.

Yes, but we use 2 decimal figures sometimes : 38.72 °C. Seriously, what I want to point out is that the argument of precision falls apart : sometimes round units are more precise in the Imperial system (Farenheits), sometimes they are more precise in the metric system (centimeters). The metric system doesn't try to achieve that. When someone tells me his height is 5' 10", that's as many figures as in 1.75 m (I think that's the same height, but really, I don't care). So much for the supposed simplicity of the Imperial system.

I actually read an article (about a few minutes ago) where somebody argued that basing a system of weights and measures on 12 is superior to basing one on 10, because 12 is more divisible. But Imperial Units are not entirely based on 12.

Glad you report that. anarres has given us some conversions about weights, and that uses "14" and "16" apparently. Anyway, there sure are better numbers than 10 for a base. The problem is that our numerical system, be it in Europe or in America, is based on "10", and that is the relevent factor for the simplicity of the metric system : you can "compute" figures and units seperately so easily, which is impossible in the Imperial system. Example : 300 grams multiplied by 9.81 meters per square second ? Better change 300 grams to 0.3 kilogram first (since the kilogram is the standard unit), and then : 0.3*9.81 = 2.943. And : kg*m/s² = N. So : it is equal to 2.943 Newtons (the weight corresponding to this mass at the sea level). We use 10 for numbers, let's use 10 for measures !!

However, I would firmly oppose any forced metrification in the United States, or, indeed, any government espousal of the metric system. American scientists use metric because they want to, the American industries that need to use metric (say, those that sell things to Europe) have voluntarily adopted metric as a way of increasing profit, etc. Those who need or want to use metric already do so. There is no need for the rest of the United States to be forced in that direction. Indeed, I would argue that government-supported or mandated adoption of metric would be a tragedy, sending the wrong message about our status in the world and our relationship with foreign lands.

Please don't change ! You're such a treasure to this board, with this unique trait regarding your patriotism. To put it bluntly, here's what you're saying : "The world does it better than us, but we shouldn't try to copy them because it would show our weakness." Blind pride, and nothing else. The real tragedy is that the world hasn't waited for you to convert to the metric system to acknowledge your weaknesses (military all the way, hurricanes, and dozens of other stuffs...).

Some imperial things are really easy for cooking - like meringues, one egg white = 2oz sugar, or a cake recipe 1 egg = 2oz each of sugar, butter, flour. Compare that to 57g!

Once again, an idiotic example, but I will let the girls using the metric system argue about it.

Moderator Action: Please, debate without calling people idiots.

 

[kryszcztov]

Optimal numeral system is base 30

That's a personal opinion.

Also "percent" would become "perninehundred" and thus would be more accurate in practical terms (cuz we tend to limit "percent" to two digits)

I will surprise you, but we also use "perthousands" : [ ‰ ]. Especially in demographics, but I'm sure in other fields as well. They're a bit more precise than your "perninehundreds" too. And back to our common %'s, they're usually sufficient in ordinary science (error margins), because error margins usually are greater than 1% (error on measure and on instruments). More precise results usually are achieved in fields involving many digits anyway.

117 = your eyes are going to sting really bad ...most likley you will not be able to see let alone drive without good air conditioning ...anyone to young or old should stay in all day and anyone going outside should keep massive amounts just to survive

115 = constrution forced night work by goverment order

113 = drink a minam um half a gallon of water an hour

110 = take exterme caution with old/young people

105= avoid takeing young/old out durring mid day ( 11 to 5)

100 = stay well hydrated

95 = sun screen and water

90 = keep an eye on old/young

89 and under = Pleasnt

Make that 42.5 °C and stuff, and we're slightly above your precision ! Yes, we use decimal numbers too.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Once again, an idiotic example, but I will let the girls using the metric system argue about it.

Are you saying you consider cooking as a female job ?

My bf does the cooking in everyday life... I only make cake when I want to.

 

[wit>trope]

That's a personal opinion.

And it is an opinion that just happens to match what is in fact true.

It's mathematical proven that the more unique factors in the system, the better it is. 10 has only 2 and 5. 30 has 2, 3 and 5 -- so it is mathematically proven to be better. Of course, something like 210 would be even better, but that's too many symbols to memorize.

Reason why this is mathematically proven is that with base 10, if you see a number:

82347897129870799......N

Then you ONLY have to look at last digit to find out whether the WHOLE number is divisible by 2 or 5

i.e. if N is divisible by 2 or is zero, then the whole number is divisible by 2. If N is divisibly by 5 or is zero the whole number is divisible by 5.

With a BASE 30 system:

FSJKHJKHQKMMKJD............k

You ONLY have to look at last digit k to find out whether the WHOLE number is divisible by 2,3 or 5

(same as with base 10 above but now if k is divisible by 3 or is zero, you know the whole number is divisible by 3)

Not many people know about this. (I figured it out for myself like just now

 

[kryszcztov]

Are you saying you consider cooking as a female job ?

Answer #1 : Does "mysogynism" (word ?) break any rule on this board ? Then let me this simple and insignificant post-feminist fun, will ya ?

Answer #2 : Even if I enjoyed cooking (which isn't really the case, all the more when I'm alone eating), I wouldn't care if I needed exactly 1 or 2 oz of this or that to make a cake, I'd just look up the recipe, add my 57 grams of stuff, and off we'd go ! I don't know if it's a girl thing, so I hope I piqued you enough for you to answer now.

(choose your answer)

@ cierdan : Is that big of a deal to have so many numbers to divide your numerical base ? Science wouldn't care the slightest (huge number of digits in values, and floating numbers). Everyday life doesn't use large numbers, so that the only thing missing in the decimal system (the division by 3) can be quickly tested by adding the digits in whatever number and see if the sum can be divided by 3 (or repeat... but we're in everyday life here, so that shouldn't happen). While it could be better, no big deal.

 

[wit>trope]

Answer #1 : Does "mysogynism" (word ?) break any rule on this board ? Then let me this simple and insignificant post-feminist fun, will ya ?

Answer #2 : Even if I enjoyed cooking (which isn't really the case, all the more when I'm alone eating), I wouldn't care if I needed exactly 1 or 2 oz of this or that to make a cake, I'd just look up the recipe, add my 57 grams of stuff, and off we'd go ! I don't know if it's a girl thing, so I hope I piqued you enough for you to answer now.

I think if it it is "in the home" it is a girl thing and if it is professional "outside home" it's a guy thing .... so looks like I agree with you

@ cierdan : Is that big of a deal to have so many numbers to divide your numerical base ?

It'd make it easy to do modulus operations like 27868768681 mod 2 you know is 1 or 8978977 mod 5 you know is 2. With base 30, you could do the same for mod 3.

Everyday life doesn't use large numbers, so that the only thing missing in the decimal system (the division by 3) can be quickly tested by adding the digits in whatever number and see if the sum can be divided by 3 (or repeat... but we're in everyday life here, so that shouldn't happen). While it could be better, no big deal.

That's still not as fast and also with base 30, you can do that very thing for division by 29

 

[HighlandWarrior]

i don't care for metric unless im using it in my statics class. (not statistics)