Improvements
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
ELChucko
Chieftain
Hey Thal,
Your sweet Civ5 mods have prompted me to register on CivFanatics, so nicely done!
I had a thought--just a thought--about the Great Engineer's Manufactory. I find myself never wanting to plop one down because it always feels like the best spots for one are already occupied by a mine that's working on Iron or Coal or whatever, and i certainly wouldn't want to lose access to such important resources.
So my thought was that it would be cool if i could take my great engineer to my (ONLY!) Iron resource--let's say it only give out 2 Iron--have him build his Manufactory, and then not only would it give me the +4
bonus that your mod allows, but it would also give me access to the 2 precious Iron, and maybe even increase the iron output from 2 to either 3 or 4.
Does that make sense? I haven't sat down to think everything through. I'm more just thinking broadly.
I'm trying to work it all out myself, but sifting through code isn't exactly a strong suit of mine. :-/
Either way, you're doing a lot of cool stuff with what I think is an already cool game. Thanks!!
Chucko
Your sweet Civ5 mods have prompted me to register on CivFanatics, so nicely done!
I had a thought--just a thought--about the Great Engineer's Manufactory. I find myself never wanting to plop one down because it always feels like the best spots for one are already occupied by a mine that's working on Iron or Coal or whatever, and i certainly wouldn't want to lose access to such important resources.
So my thought was that it would be cool if i could take my great engineer to my (ONLY!) Iron resource--let's say it only give out 2 Iron--have him build his Manufactory, and then not only would it give me the +4
bonus that your mod allows, but it would also give me access to the 2 precious Iron, and maybe even increase the iron output from 2 to either 3 or 4.Does that make sense? I haven't sat down to think everything through. I'm more just thinking broadly.
I'm trying to work it all out myself, but sifting through code isn't exactly a strong suit of mine. :-/
Either way, you're doing a lot of cool stuff with what I think is an already cool game. Thanks!!
Chucko
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Glad you're enjoying the mods!
So basically what you're saying is the Manufactory should also act as a mine for connecting resources under it? That's an excellent idea and I'll see if it's possible. If I can't do it with just XML, I'll definitely add your change once we have access to the c++.
So basically what you're saying is the Manufactory should also act as a mine for connecting resources under it? That's an excellent idea and I'll see if it's possible. If I can't do it with just XML, I'll definitely add your change once we have access to the c++.
Awesome idea, since it's resource tiles your city will be working almost always, that's a nice boost to hammers that will be definitly used. Setting it so it also gives 1 additional resource might be a nice extra as well (might be hard to implement though).
Could possibly do the same for merchant's and luxury resources, making them more usefull as well.
KingArthur666
Warlord
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Ah, that's a tooltip error. I changed Wealth to 25% (to match the upcoming official patch) but forgot to change the tooltip. Thank you for pointing it out, I'll fix that right away.
I did a test in a current game:
8.75
+ 25% * 18 = 13.25
If you're getting values other than 25%, make sure you have the latest version of the unofficial patch mod, and test if it works with only that mod enabled. There might be another mod interfering.
I did a test in a current game:
Spoiler :
8.75
+ 25% * 18 = 13.25If you're getting values other than 25%, make sure you have the latest version of the unofficial patch mod, and test if it works with only that mod enabled. There might be another mod interfering.
Hi
I seem to be experiencing significant a slowdown of the game right now. It seems to be worst during save/load. When loading it takes e.g. 3 minuttes before it switches to the loading screen where it used to be instantaneous.
Only difference between this game and previously played is that I upgraded to newest version of unofficial patch and included the Random Events mod. I know the last one uses lua and that it may very well be because of this that i'm experiencing this slowdonwn, just wanted to check if anyone else is having the same problems.
Not trying to insult anyone here - you all do a great job of making the game fun to play!
\Skodkim
I seem to be experiencing significant a slowdown of the game right now. It seems to be worst during save/load. When loading it takes e.g. 3 minuttes before it switches to the loading screen where it used to be instantaneous.
Only difference between this game and previously played is that I upgraded to newest version of unofficial patch and included the Random Events mod. I know the last one uses lua and that it may very well be because of this that i'm experiencing this slowdonwn, just wanted to check if anyone else is having the same problems.
Not trying to insult anyone here - you all do a great job of making the game fun to play!
\Skodkim
Perkus
Prince
I installed this for the first time tonight (was running pieces of it for a while). I went to load an old saved game (created without this mod) to see the effects of the new grocer. Your description of the changes didn't make it clear whether you got rid of the vanilla +2 Food bonus or not. Since it's not part of the help text (it's added automagically), I initially thought you took that out, except it didn't make any sense that way. So I went to check it to be sure. Perhaps a slight edit to the mod description would help clear that up?
Anyway, the main point of this post. I had a city with connected cows and sheep, and a Granary / Grocer already built. But the cow/sheep tiles weren't giving me any extra +1 food bonus. I was confused for a while, redoing the yield logic several times in my head, but nope, it was definitely "not working". I then tried NEXT TURN to see if it would kick in then, just had to get to get recalculated. Nope, still nothing. Hmm. So I went & bought a new one in another city with cows that had no Granary before. And voila, instant extra food !
My conclusion: The Building_ResourceYieldChanges table seems to get processed only when a new building is built. I tested this and it's a fact. I saved it and reloaded - the cows with the new grocer were still making 1 more food. Then I went and disabled the mod, and reloaded again. Now I had the old granary back, but the cow tile was still making an extra food!
This means that the Grocer portion of the mod "Affects Saves". Now, I'm not suggesting you should suddenly slap the Affects Saves flag on this whole thing, Thal, but it's curious - I was wondering if you knew that it works like that. Perhaps it warrants some sort of documentation as well, so it doesn't confuse people who apply this mod mid-game.
As far as the "Grocer" name goes, too bad you don't Butcher a banana, then that would have worked!
Anyway, the main point of this post. I had a city with connected cows and sheep, and a Granary / Grocer already built. But the cow/sheep tiles weren't giving me any extra +1 food bonus. I was confused for a while, redoing the yield logic several times in my head, but nope, it was definitely "not working". I then tried NEXT TURN to see if it would kick in then, just had to get to get recalculated. Nope, still nothing. Hmm. So I went & bought a new one in another city with cows that had no Granary before. And voila, instant extra food !
My conclusion: The Building_ResourceYieldChanges table seems to get processed only when a new building is built. I tested this and it's a fact. I saved it and reloaded - the cows with the new grocer were still making 1 more food. Then I went and disabled the mod, and reloaded again. Now I had the old granary back, but the cow tile was still making an extra food!
This means that the Grocer portion of the mod "Affects Saves". Now, I'm not suggesting you should suddenly slap the Affects Saves flag on this whole thing, Thal, but it's curious - I was wondering if you knew that it works like that. Perhaps it warrants some sort of documentation as well, so it doesn't confuse people who apply this mod mid-game.
As far as the "Grocer" name goes, too bad you don't Butcher a banana, then that would have worked!
bobbyboy29
I was saying boo-urns...
Can I just mention Thal, the grocer building makes the game DRASTICALLY more fun for me 
. Makes city placement much more interesting (also reduces need to rely on maritime CS for food). Mint is great too as is, we definately need more buildings like this which give varied bonuses (i.e happiness and gold) as most buildings (+% to one thing) are just plain boring. Definately a building which improves the yields of dyes, silks, spices, furs etc. is needed (also maybe buff the seaport a bit, its a good idea but you never have enough resources in 1 city to make it worth it). Keep 'em coming!
. Makes city placement much more interesting (also reduces need to rely on maritime CS for food). Mint is great too as is, we definately need more buildings like this which give varied bonuses (i.e happiness and gold) as most buildings (+% to one thing) are just plain boring. Definately a building which improves the yields of dyes, silks, spices, furs etc. is needed (also maybe buff the seaport a bit, its a good idea but you never have enough resources in 1 city to make it worth it). Keep 'em coming!
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
@skodkim
Try disabling the mods and see if the loading times are the same. From what I've seen mods have relatively little effect on loading speeds... I found Civ V's loading times excessively long even without mods.
@Perkus
Good point, though one reason why the description is so short is there's a character limit on mod descriptions. I can't include all the details of every change there... but I'll put it in the readme file and see if I can cram another word or two into the description.
That's an interesting find about Building_ResourceYieldChanges... similar to something else I discovered. Apparently, Improvement_TechYieldChanges is similar (the +1
mines thing), doesn't update when a game is loaded. I don't want to block the mod's use in savegames entirely, but I'll put a note about this in the readme.
I like the Butcher name idea... and Bananas are somewhat rare. Here's a thought... I could move the +1
for Bananas to the improvement itself, then rename the building to Butcher. I think I'll do that, thanks for the idea.
@bobbyboy29
Improving some of the other luxury resource tiles seems like an idea I've seen in several places, you're right that a buff might be good. One reason I avoided buffing luxury resources is they're already useful for trade purposes. Here's some thoughts:
Butcher: 2 and +1 for each Cow, Deer and Sheep.
Stable: +1 +1
to Horses.
Engineering: +1 to Quarries (since mines get this).
Fertilizer: +1 to Plantations.
Gunpowder: +1 to Camps.
Alternatively, the Windmill and/or Watermill could give +1 to nearby Luxury resources (more effective processing of these resources). At the very least I'm planning on the first 3 changes.
Try disabling the mods and see if the loading times are the same. From what I've seen mods have relatively little effect on loading speeds... I found Civ V's loading times excessively long even without mods.
@Perkus
Good point, though one reason why the description is so short is there's a character limit on mod descriptions. I can't include all the details of every change there... but I'll put it in the readme file and see if I can cram another word or two into the description.
That's an interesting find about Building_ResourceYieldChanges... similar to something else I discovered. Apparently, Improvement_TechYieldChanges is similar (the +1
mines thing), doesn't update when a game is loaded. I don't want to block the mod's use in savegames entirely, but I'll put a note about this in the readme.I like the Butcher name idea... and Bananas are somewhat rare. Here's a thought... I could move the +1
for Bananas to the improvement itself, then rename the building to Butcher. I think I'll do that, thanks for the idea.@bobbyboy29
Improving some of the other luxury resource tiles seems like an idea I've seen in several places, you're right that a buff might be good. One reason I avoided buffing luxury resources is they're already useful for trade purposes. Here's some thoughts:
Butcher: 2
and +1 for each Cow, Deer and Sheep.Stable: +1
+1 to Horses.Engineering: +1
to Quarries (since mines get this).Fertilizer: +1
to Plantations.Gunpowder: +1
to Camps.Alternatively, the Windmill and/or Watermill could give +1
to nearby Luxury resources (more effective processing of these resources). At the very least I'm planning on the first 3 changes.Perkus
Prince
In my (limited) experience, Luxury resources don't need any buffing, I find the Happiness bonus essential to keep the empire happy. I am still used to the old "rex" playstyle - expand & landgrab ASAP, and my biggest battle is constantly the Happiness. I pretty much don't settle a new city without having a least one new Happiness resource nearby, in fact.
One thing that I'm going to try in my local mod is having trading posts only be +1 gold until Printing Press (when they get back to +2). The previous thing I tried, +2 becoming +3 (with the +1 science policy) is just too much.
I've also made plantations (except sugar) +1 gold, pastures +1 food, and iron +1 hammer (I also have the GP improvements boosted during the Renaissance, mainly to liven up the tech tree). Overall, I found that having some 5-(F+P) tiles early made me want to actually purchase tiles a lot more, helped with slow early production, and the locations of cities 2 through 4 was more relevant. Of course, once "magical maritime food" kicks in, it doesn't really matter.
I've also made plantations (except sugar) +1 gold, pastures +1 food, and iron +1 hammer (I also have the GP improvements boosted during the Renaissance, mainly to liven up the tech tree). Overall, I found that having some 5-(F+P) tiles early made me want to actually purchase tiles a lot more, helped with slow early production, and the locations of cities 2 through 4 was more relevant. Of course, once "magical maritime food" kicks in, it doesn't really matter.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
@Perkus
This is why I left luxury resources as-is until now, yet it's always worth revisiting for discussion.
@es4
Interesting idea, though there's the potential it could affect early-game gold quite a bit. I'll try it out.
This is why I left luxury resources as-is until now, yet it's always worth revisiting for discussion.
@es4
Interesting idea, though there's the potential it could affect early-game gold quite a bit. I'll try it out.
Perkus
Prince
@Zeppelin4
I'm pretty sure it gives a bonus for each one you have. Even if you have multiples. It raises the yield in the tile with the resource.
I'm pretty sure it gives a bonus for each one you have. Even if you have multiples. It raises the yield in the tile with the resource.
@zeppelin
it gives the bonus ON the actual tile... meaning you have to work it to get it... so yea... +1 for every since it's on the tile...
@thal
i don't know if anyone noticed this, but the harbor tooltip/civpedia doesn't say that it adds +1 gold to ocean tiles... i didn't build one for the longest until i read the desc of the mod and was like...
it gives the bonus ON the actual tile... meaning you have to work it to get it... so yea... +1 for every since it's on the tile...
@thal
i don't know if anyone noticed this, but the harbor tooltip/civpedia doesn't say that it adds +1 gold to ocean tiles... i didn't build one for the longest until i read the desc of the mod and was like...
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
@lounahtic
If you also have the Unofficial Patch installed, they both alter the Harbor tooltip so you gotta delete the Unofficial Patch - Harbor.xml file from the Unofficial Patch folder. Details are in the "Compatibility" section of this thread and the readme.
If you also have the Unofficial Patch installed, they both alter the Harbor tooltip so you gotta delete the Unofficial Patch - Harbor.xml file from the Unofficial Patch folder. Details are in the "Compatibility" section of this thread and the readme.
Some thoughts:
1. Grocer -> Butcher is a wonderful idea! Moving the +1
on bananas to the improvement would have a double effect. Bananas are currently always found on jungles which makes a 3
tile. When improved by a grocer and a university it becomes a 4
2
tile without an improvement on it. This is pretty silly and is a large disincentive to build the actual tile improvement. Moving the +1
to the improvement would solve this problem.
2. Generally speaking, the tile yield on luxury resources remains competitive with all other improvements throughout the game. Adding more commerce, while nice, is probably un-necessary as a balance change.
3. Although I am bias, I strongly support the stables improving horses change due to horses being one of the last inferior "resource" tiles in the game. (4 total yield compared to 5-6 for every other resource)
1. Grocer -> Butcher is a wonderful idea! Moving the +1
2. Generally speaking, the tile yield on luxury resources remains competitive with all other improvements throughout the game. Adding more commerce, while nice, is probably un-necessary as a balance change.
3. Although I am bias, I strongly support the stables improving horses change due to horses being one of the last inferior "resource" tiles in the game. (4 total yield compared to 5-6 for every other resource)
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Plantations actually clear features (unlike camps) so it doesn't get a jungle science bonus. I think this is the yields, though would help to check my math:
1 1 : Plains
+1 : Banana
+2 -1 : Banana Plantation
+1 : Mod
5 : Total for Bananas
5 : Max for floodplains wheat (with this mod, and not counting gold bonus that applies to anything)
4 1 : Max for plains non-river wheat
5 1 : Max for plains river wheat (with this mod)
It's available later than wheat (requires Masonry) but can be fully improved once that's researched, so overall is about a sidegrade or slightly weaker.
2. I agree, luxuries also give the happiness bonuses, so I'm hesitant to buff them any more... already quite useful. I've considered for a long time giving mined gold and silver -1 (to compensate for the Engineering bonus)... though still uncertain about it.
3. I moved the Stables change to the City Development mod. There's some overlap between the two mods, but I decided to keep the parts separate since this mod primarily deals with worker or GP improvement orders (external unit-based development), and the other is concerned with buildings, wonders and specialists (internal city development).
1
1 : Plains+1
: Banana+2
-1 : Banana Plantation +1
: Mod5
: Total for Bananas5
: Max for floodplains wheat (with this mod, and not counting gold bonus that applies to anything)4
1 : Max for plains non-river wheat5
1 : Max for plains river wheat (with this mod)It's available later than wheat (requires Masonry) but can be fully improved once that's researched, so overall is about a sidegrade or slightly weaker.
2. I agree, luxuries also give the happiness bonuses, so I'm hesitant to buff them any more... already quite useful. I've considered for a long time giving mined gold and silver -1
(to compensate for the Engineering bonus)... though still uncertain about it.3. I moved the Stables change to the City Development mod. There's some overlap between the two mods, but I decided to keep the parts separate since this mod primarily deals with worker or GP improvement orders (external unit-based development), and the other is concerned with buildings, wonders and specialists (internal city development).
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I don't normally double post, but there's something in the latest version I just remembered and is worth emphasizing. GP improvements can now improve resources. You can check to Civlopedia to find out precisely which resources.
These provide the same benefit a plantation, mine, quarry, etc would plus their normal bonuses, so resource access and total cumulative yield are the same wherever you build them (or the normal improvements). In particular, this makes Citadels somewhat more useful since they can now be used for critical-resource defense like in Civ IV. It also allows you to instantly hook up resources with a Great Person, skipping the normal worker build time. It's sort of a niche use but might come in handy some time if you need that iron right away. If this makes GP improvements too powerful I might lower the base bonuses -1... so could use feedback if anyone gets a chance to play a few games with this enhancement.
Also, this was somewhat messy to code and I might have made a typo or two... so if you discover an improvement-resource combo might not be working properly, please point it out.
- Citadel improves any resource it's built on (increases yield and provides resource access).
- Landmark improves Luxury resources.
- Customs House improves Luxury resources.
- Academy improves none (gameplay: would further overpower Great Scientists, realism: wouldn't make much sense for a university to be heavily involved in production or trade)
- Manufactory improves Strategic resources, or luxuries requiring a Mine or Quarry.
These provide the same benefit a plantation, mine, quarry, etc would plus their normal bonuses, so resource access and total cumulative yield are the same wherever you build them (or the normal improvements). In particular, this makes Citadels somewhat more useful since they can now be used for critical-resource defense like in Civ IV. It also allows you to instantly hook up resources with a Great Person, skipping the normal worker build time. It's sort of a niche use but might come in handy some time if you need that iron right away. If this makes GP improvements too powerful I might lower the base bonuses -1... so could use feedback if anyone gets a chance to play a few games with this enhancement.
Also, this was somewhat messy to code and I might have made a typo or two... so if you discover an improvement-resource combo might not be working properly, please point it out.
