Inaccuracies (historical, scientific, logic...)
- Thread starter Faustmouse
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Faustmouse
Deity
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Who was doing heros anyways? Was it Sargon? Is he still around?
climat
King
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Hydro wants to turn them off and I agree on that. As I mentioned in my previous post, we already have bug catcher building anyway. But if other people want to have them, I may be able to come up with ideas.
Faustmouse
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So the solution is simply: Turn Mr Azures Bug Buildings off, make the Bug Catcher non-obsolete and make him produce bug resource? Sounds good for me!
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
However turning the buildings off also turns the resource off so it needs to be moved first
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
The two resource system was a way to allow for extra types of animals, plants and minerals to be added to the game without having to add more map resources. On major problem of the game was having every building in every city. So these at least made it so combos would not be in every city. At first it was all up to chance and random maps were more powerful than Earth based scenario maps.
But then once the Great Farmer was put it it made Animal and Plant based combos a lot more common. And now that resource vicinity counts from buildings such as herd and other resource producing buildings now all those combo buildings are even MORE common.
Sure you may not ever every combo in every game, but the % of getting them is a LOT higher than it was. Almost too common in my opinion.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
It should not require an exploit with the Great Farmer to get a few common flowers and berries. Make common plants common (by abandoning the mandatory tie-ins to indigo and grapes or whatever), and by all means nerf the Great Farmer to keep rare plants rare.
The tie-in of all berries/flowers to one resource is the main reason that they become 'too common' once the Great Farmer is on the job.
Faustmouse
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Would you prefer a different resource for every Bug, Vegetable, Fruit and Flower (and probably drug...)?
We DO have this for minerals, so it is not THAT far off, but I wonder if that add so much for game play...
climat
King
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Off-Topic:
I wish there was a system like resource consumption. Especially for manufactured resources. Then, we can have every building in every city..
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
We could indeed have a resource consumption system, either using properties or Platyping's Manufactured Resources mod. However implementing it is a big job.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Drugs are fine. Fruit has a reasonable range of fruit map resources to tie into, and is not ridiculously rare.
So yes, bugs, vegetables, flowers and berries (ideally the non-resource fungi too since edible fungi are far more common than mushroom map resources). Some should be common and for this to occur their requirements must be much easier to satisfy. Also some flowers need to occur independently of indigo, and some berries need to be independent of grapes, and bugs independent of silkworms, even if they aren't all that common. This probably applies to some mined resources as well - zinc and (crystalline) quartz are two that spring to mind - unless they come along later.
And it's not for gameplay, it's for realism. I'd suggest that's what this thread is about. The only gameplay improvement is that you will have more than one flowers/berries/vegetables resource when you get to 70 cities...
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Common is a relative term. Coffee for instance was very rare and guarded resource for quite some time. Potatoes were not common until encountering the Inca. Heck even the common spices we have today were not common until they were replanted away from their native lands.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Which is why I wasn't talking about coffee or potatoes (or pepper). The blackberry has been common - growing everywhere in its range with no encouragement like a weed - since it evolved - which was long before we did. Likewise any civ that wanted to eat bugs could find a bug of some sort to eat. Butterflies and/or moths are common in most climates, same with ants, beetles, spiders - lots of them. Likewise wildflowers. At least some of them have not had to be introduced from anywhere. That's the 'common' I'm talking about.
Does the great Farmer properly respect the BonusInfo placement rules regarding latitude, terrain and feature types requirements when he goes a planting?
If not he should.
(That way you still can't plant the tropical resource way up north, even if it did happen to be a grassland terrain, etc.)
Otherwise though, why couldn't we have let things that are ubiquitously common 'berries', 'flowers', 'bugs' or whatever simply have remained represented by the ultimate measure of common values 'the tile yields'?....instead we have bugs...why did the mod ever need to represent bugs?
If not he should.
(That way you still can't plant the tropical resource way up north, even if it did happen to be a grassland terrain, etc.)
Otherwise though, why couldn't we have let things that are ubiquitously common 'berries', 'flowers', 'bugs' or whatever simply have remained represented by the ultimate measure of common values 'the tile yields'?....instead we have bugs...why did the mod ever need to represent bugs?
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
The Great Farmer is just that puts plant and animal resources anywhere. One of the reasons I don't like the unit.
Now that you mention it, if I don't hard code the terrains in the missions for settling horses etc, I could come up with generic code. Only problem will be that at the time of the Great Farmer we may want to keep the latitude restrictions but not the terrain restrictions, then later with the terraformming we could ignore even those.
My current code does
For the animals that usually have a camp I was going to make the tech requirement Biology. If you have a Mega Fauna wonder then you can plant that animal the same as for the domesticated animal.
I have wondered that myself and why are the yields on farms not reduced since we have those bugs etc.
Now that you mention it, if I don't hard code the terrains in the missions for settling horses etc, I could come up with generic code. Only problem will be that at the time of the Great Farmer we may want to keep the latitude restrictions but not the terrain restrictions, then later with the terraformming we could ignore even those.
My current code does
- with Trade - 50% can place a domesticated animal on clear terrain
- with Iron Working - 100% can place a domesticated animal on any terrain clearing forest and jungle and putting a pasture also.
For the animals that usually have a camp I was going to make the tech requirement Biology. If you have a Mega Fauna wonder then you can plant that animal the same as for the domesticated animal.
I have wondered that myself and why are the yields on farms not reduced since we have those bugs etc.
I want to suggest change culture "building" mechanism.
In IRL - culture formed by peoples that found something new to them and used to that ritual\method of living.
Detailed:
Culture can be formed if needed pre-req available, then city pop rising.
Culture need to be maintained (used) or it can die.
Culture die then last bearer of that culture die.
Then ai\player got first culture it spread to all pop of that city (only) and later to other cities via trade \ road and by time.
To maintain culture player need to build buildings and units belong to that culture or every turn some of culture bearers will die and eventualy all culture die.
If player build\got new culture he then can support it so it will spread in his civ.
Then ai\player got more then 1 culture he have ..much much more problems then he want to have. As this MUST create REV. activity and eventualy disorder it also decrease productivity and happiness. SO it is important to have very strong political power.
Culture eventualy spread to other country so every player need to have option to control how open or closed your civ is and this choice make your diplomacy style base.
If you trade actively with your neighbours - you eventualy will have their cultures and problems!
And so there is need method to control "culture" flows. Such as genocide \ discrimination \ ghetto against unneeded culture. And this actions will have results.
And last one - please rename base cultures (european\african\oceanian) to Ethnic group - as it is better name for it.
In IRL - culture formed by peoples that found something new to them and used to that ritual\method of living.
Detailed:
Culture can be formed if needed pre-req available, then city pop rising.
Culture need to be maintained (used) or it can die.
Culture die then last bearer of that culture die.
Then ai\player got first culture it spread to all pop of that city (only) and later to other cities via trade \ road and by time.
To maintain culture player need to build buildings and units belong to that culture or every turn some of culture bearers will die and eventualy all culture die.
If player build\got new culture he then can support it so it will spread in his civ.
Then ai\player got more then 1 culture he have ..much much more problems then he want to have. As this MUST create REV. activity and eventualy disorder it also decrease productivity and happiness. SO it is important to have very strong political power.
Culture eventualy spread to other country so every player need to have option to control how open or closed your civ is and this choice make your diplomacy style base.
If you trade actively with your neighbours - you eventualy will have their cultures and problems!
And so there is need method to control "culture" flows. Such as genocide \ discrimination \ ghetto against unneeded culture. And this actions will have results.
And last one - please rename base cultures (european\african\oceanian) to Ethnic group - as it is better name for it.
CIVPlayer8
Prince
Although a rather small issue, I feel as though Assembly Line and Industrialism are in the wrong places; their locations on the tech tree have been switched. Historically, Industrialism came in the early 1800's, and the Assembly Line in the early 1900's. If you'll look at the pictures, you'll see that "Industrialism" is right beside "Trench Warfare" (WWI), and "Assembly Line" is beside "Organic Chemistry" (1840's).
Attachments
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@CIVPlayer8
Here are the posts where and why things got moved by Vokarya.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12086792&highlight=industrialism#post12086792
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12072065&postcount=1104
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12061921&postcount=1077
So that's the logic of where they were placed.
Here are the posts where and why things got moved by Vokarya.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12086792&highlight=industrialism#post12086792
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12072065&postcount=1104
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12061921&postcount=1077
So that's the logic of where they were placed.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Remember too that Mr Azure did some tech tree shuffling before he shuffled off again.
JosEPh
JosEPh
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Not in that era though. It was mostly the Transhuman Era and a small bit of the Modern era plus additions to the Prehistoric, Ancient and Classical eras.
He did not touch the Renaissance or Industrial Eras (as far as I know).
