[GS] Inca Livestream-Dec 20th

[Sostratus]

I would hope they are! Or why else did I buy these 200 feet television screens for them?? To throw rocks at??

I'm starting to wonder how much resource per deposit coal, oil, and uranium provide. Because if it's 2 like iron and horses, these numbers are just way too high.
Suppose it's 2.
You build a power plant. Happy day.
But, you had to have a factory to build that plant, so that's 2 power right off the top. You have 6 left. That means you can power a campus and a broadcast tower. A single one of each, no more.
Imagining a relatively efficient layout, most cities would be campus-TS-CH and some would be campus-TS-IZ.
Each of those configurations have t3 buildings requiring 8 total power. That means one power resource deposit for each city you have. Tell me, oh fanatics, in your 7 city, all-governor empire, do you usually have 7 coal and oil and uranium resources? Each city has one on average?
And that is just to cover the power needs; you gotta save some oil to actually have a land army that includes melee or tanks. So hydro dams will be a key thing to watch on their output since they might let you run enough t3 buildings that you can have units to defend yourself and power your structures.

 

[Jkchart]

I'm starting to wonder how much resource per deposit coal, oil, and uranium provide. Because if it's 2 like iron and horses, these numbers are just way too high.
Suppose it's 2.
You build a power plant. Happy day.
But, you had to have a factory to build that plant, so that's 2 power right off the top. You have 6 left. That means you can power a campus and a broadcast tower. A single one of each, no more.
Imagining a relatively efficient layout, most cities would be campus-TS-CH and some would be campus-TS-IZ.
Each of those configurations have t3 buildings requiring 8 total power. That means one power resource deposit for each city you have. Tell me, oh fanatics, in your 7 city, all-governor empire, do you usually have 7 coal and oil and uranium resources? Each city has one on average?
And that is just to cover the power needs; you gotta save some oil to actually have a land army that includes melee or tanks. So hydro dams will be a key thing to watch on their output since they might let you run enough t3 buildings that you can have units to defend yourself and power your structures.

That and you'll only end up powering cities that are worth it, at least initially. Until you get access to green energy (which I imagine is expensive, in addition to limited based on the fact that it can only power the city that it can be worked by), you have to make difficult choices in how you allocate your resources - industry/economy, or war. I don't think that is a bad thing per se, but it does absolutely mean a nerf for modern armies unless you can acquire a good sized flow of industrial goods to power these units, or to find someone to purchase them from.

Seems like warmongers are going to have to go full Japan 1942 to acquire more.

EDIT: It also runs the risk of once again, Heavy Cav being the unit of choice. If melee units cost the same to maintain in resources, I should just build tanks, right?

 

[bbbt]

I'm sure the Stock Exchange will be, but I wonder about the Stadium and Aquatic Center.

I realized we haven't actually seen any of the science victory projects themselves in action - I wondering if they've been updated to require both production and power now (potentially a lot of power), and power is primarily a science victory end game mechanic.

 

[Elhoim]

I agree. Very sad. Hopefully this does not lead to spamming this all-purpose unit.
At the moment the GDR seems too strong – 130 base stregth vs. 107 for a Modern Armor Army. I'm curious about how they balance this out until release.

The 3 uranium per turn consumption is pretty high. I don't see fielding more than 4 or 5.

 

[Jkchart]

The 3 uranium per turn consumption is pretty high. I don't see fielding more than 4 or 5.

That's probably the intention (and even 4 or 5 is probably stretching your uranium supply). They did describe it as basically an end-game "wonder-type" unit, so I think it's fair to have it balanced in cost this way.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I am just now catching up on watching the livestream. Did Anton say at the end that the 3 future governments give you 5 wild card slots?? WOW!!!!

 

[GoatsHeadSoup]

I Don't think it really matters, that we don't get any new future units besides the GDR. If the other units are balanced within each other, the GDR will elp tem for sure, but tanks can still be effective against other units and ships will be effective against other ships.

Wow, I'm so glad Firaxis decided to include an old unfunny meme instead of actually doing their research on near-future technology, I look forward to the Chuck Norris joke they will include in the 3rd expansion.

 

[Disgustipated]

hat and you'll only end up powering cities that are worth it, at least initially. Until you get access to green energy (which I imagine is expensive, in addition to limited based on the fact that it can only power the city that it can be worked by), you have to make difficult choices in how you allocate your resources - industry/economy, or war. I don't think that is a bad thing per se, but it does absolutely mean a nerf for modern armies unless you can acquire a good sized flow of industrial goods to power these units, or to find someone to purchase them from.

Seems like warmongers are going to have to go full Japan 1942 to acquire more.

EDIT: It also runs the risk of once again, Heavy Cav being the unit of choice. If melee units cost the same to maintain in resources, I should just build tanks, right?

I worry about some of these numbers as well. This only encourages steamrolling in the early game. Diplomacy be damned. Small turtle empires will not have the resources they need. I've had quite a few games without coal.

and I like the interesting decisions this could make. But of course comparing it to reality where very quickly nearly every city was powered once the technology was affordable. It's not like we have unpowered cities today. North Korea notwithstanding.

 

[Jkchart]

I worry about some of these numbers as well. This only encourages steamrolling in the early game. Diplomacy be damned. Small turtle empires will not have the resources they need. I've had quite a few games without coal.

and I like the interesting decisions this could make. But of course comparing it to reality where very quickly nearly every city was powered once the technology was affordable. It's not like we have unpowered cities today. North Korea notwithstanding.

That's why I used the Japan comparison. Militaristic empire, but sorely lacking in the resources they needed to fuel their war machine, so they invaded the
Dutch East Indies (among other places). Now, to me this new system makes more sense than "2 iron supplies your whole empire" (if you're a conqueror, you better be able to find a way to find enough resources to field a gigantic army rather than 1-2 Iron IMO), but the resource balance, especially foot vs mounted units and these late game maintenance costs, is going to make or break this new system.

 

[darkace77450]

I worry about some of these numbers as well. This only encourages steamrolling in the early game. Diplomacy be damned. Small turtle empires will not have the resources they need. I've had quite a few games without coal.

and I like the interesting decisions this could make. But of course comparing it to reality where very quickly nearly every city was powered once the technology was affordable. It's not like we have unpowered cities today. North Korea notwithstanding.

IIRC there's a military policy card that provides iron/reduces the cost of iron for knights. So this could be their way of shaking up the meta we've been in with regards to policy card-usage.

 

[Disgustipated]

Now, to me this new system makes more sense than "2 iron supplies your whole empire" (if you're a conqueror, you better be able to find a way to find enough resources to field a gigantic army rather than 1-2 Iron IMO)

Agree here. For me it was 1 iron was enough to fuel my massive war machine. LOL. It was too easy to just build warriors and upgrade, or build an encampment.

 

[Jkchart]

Agree here. For me it was 1 iron was enough to fuel my massive war machine. LOL. It was too easy to just build warriors and upgrade, or build an encampment.

Exactly. If I had one Iron, i can just build the lesser unit in the current build, and with gold upgrade, bypassing the encampment restrictions as well. I like the new resource system. I just hope it is well balanced with the requirements of the power system.

 

[Arent11]

I'm starting to wonder how much resource per deposit coal, oil, and uranium provide. Because if it's 2 like iron and horses, these numbers are just way too high.
Suppose it's 2.
You build a power plant. Happy day.
But, you had to have a factory to build that plant, so that's 2 power right off the top. You have 6 left. That means you can power a campus and a broadcast tower. A single one of each, no more.
Imagining a relatively efficient layout, most cities would be campus-TS-CH and some would be campus-TS-IZ.
Each of those configurations have t3 buildings requiring 8 total power. That means one power resource deposit for each city you have. Tell me, oh fanatics, in your 7 city, all-governor empire, do you usually have 7 coal and oil and uranium resources? Each city has one on average?
And that is just to cover the power needs; you gotta save some oil to actually have a land army that includes melee or tanks. So hydro dams will be a key thing to watch on their output since they might let you run enough t3 buildings that you can have units to defend yourself and power your structures.

How about putting down 2 ziggurats that give you 8 science/culture?

 

[Kimiimaro]

Wow, I'm so glad Firaxis decided to include an old unfunny meme instead of actually doing their research on near-future technology, I look forward to the Chuck Norris joke they will include in the 3rd expansion.

Are you saying that GDR is an unfunny old meme in a game that has Nuclear Gandhi for the sixth time?

 

[Sostratus]

This only encourages steamrolling in the early game.

but the resource balance, especially foot vs mounted units and these late game maintenance costs, is going to make or break this new system.

It doesn't matter how you do it, but simple expansion in in general seems to be the way to go. You can have all the cards you want; if you don't have an oil well, it's just not happening.
Now, 2 iron works because swords have no maintenance. 2 oil does not work because you can make ... two... infantry units.
In the stream, carl has 4-5 oil deposits (3 in the north, one he builds a well on the eastern shore, another oil platform is in the northwest of his empire.) He also has 3 modern armor armies and 2 infantry army, maybe more. But his oil is going up. I'm assuming resource maintenance is higher for armies than individual units. So that would be 15ish oil consumption. It must be providing more than 2-3 per deposit.

 

[Jkchart]

It doesn't matter how you do it, but simple expansion in in general seems to be the way to go. You can have all the cards you want; if you don't have an oil well, it's just not happening.
Now, 2 iron works because swords have no maintenance. 2 oil does not work because you can make ... two... infantry units.
In the stream, carl has 4-5 oil deposits (3 in the north, one he builds a well on the eastern shore, another oil platform is in the northwest of his empire.) He also has 3 modern armor armies and 2 infantry army, maybe more. But his oil is going up. I'm assuming resource maintenance is higher for armies than individual units. So that would be 15ish oil consumption. It must be providing more than 2-3 per deposit.

That would make sense. Plus, as you advance along the tech tree, it would only be realistic for your extraction capabilities to increase.

 

[Jkchart]

How about putting down 2 ziggurats that give you 8 science/culture?

Not if you're not playing Sumeria. Which not everyone wants to play Sumeria every game.

 

[Furycrab]

Wow, so not too many buildings are powered then I guess. Seems a tad lacking.

Rather not too many of them be powered for gameplay reasons? Feels like it could snowball too much in either direction based on if you do or don't have power.

 

[Jkchart]

Rather not too many of them be powered for gameplay reasons? Feels like it could snowball too much in either direction based on if you do or don't have power.

Good point!

 

[leandrombraz]

Also, did people notice Poland having Fighters? AI using planes and stuff.

Yeah but that is really late game, way later than I usually go, so unless they succeed at making the game take longer through their redesign of the victories, I probably won't see that happening. The AI showing a bit more resistance throughout the game would make domination take longer, so I hope the AI hit me right where it hurts when I'm not expecting the AI to be able to do anything (anytime after early game). Also a rebalance of the ages system would be nice, so a domination player inevitably go through at least one dark age instead of getting an overload of era points.

I like all this late game stuff, I'm happy to see AI air units being used after 2 years without seeing much of it but the sad fact is that right now in R&F, late game doesn't really exist unless you hold back on purpose to get there or keep playing after you win, so there's a lot that they will have to do when GS come out for me to actually see this planes flying around and being a threat.

Wow, I'm so glad Firaxis decided to include an old unfunny meme instead of actually doing their research on near-future technology, I look forward to the Chuck Norris joke they will include in the 3rd expansion.

New Great General: Chuck Norris
Ability: All minor and major civs, including you, get obliterated into oblivion. Chuck Norris win the game and your game is replaced by Civilization Infinite: Age of Chuck Norris, where there's only one playable leader: Chuck Norris (Sole ability: Chuck Norris already won when the game start). Have fun.