incremental patch discussion

[Ahriman]

Some nice stuff here.
Any idea why Fremen would still be lagging scorewise?

On the catchbasins: the optimal construction of these (from a human player perspective) is quite complex. Basically, you mostly only want to build them in cities with:
a) Lots of water sources (so the -3 water doesnt' kill them)
b) Multiple flatland tiles adjacent to the city (not mesa or desert waste), so that there are actually tiles that can be converted
c) adjacent tiles don't already have fresh water from wells, otherwise the gain is wasted
Is there any way to capture any of this? Or are AI weights the only real tool we have?

We may have some feedback from the Succession game too. Mahdi Fighters in particular will probably need to be toned down (we forgot to adjust them when Bladesmen were adjusted). At the moment they are higher strength, lower cost AND free upkeep. They should probably only have at most 2 of these. Maybe just drop them to strength 5?

 

[davidlallen]

Any idea why Fremen would still be lagging scorewise?

There is too much variation between maps and start positions. I cannot accumulate any evidence, either before or after the change, that Fremen are lagging.

Or are AI weights the only real tool we have?

I am sure it is possible to alter the AI to make the proper tradeoff between these buildings and other buildings, but I don't know how. Weights are the only tool I know.

Mahdi Fighters in particular will probably need to be toned down

They do not have "ignore city defense". Let's see what happens when you actually build some in the succession game.

 

[Ahriman]

There is too much variation between maps and start positions. I cannot accumulate any evidence, either before or after the change, that Fremen are lagging.

Understood. It sounds like a larger sample size is needed.

Weights are the only tool I know.

Ok, unfortunate. Are there some crude AI blocks that could be put in
The problem is that I suspect there is no AIweight value that will not lead to either:
a) AI not building the structures where they should, or
b) AI building the structures where they should not
Would changing the water penalty fro absolute into percentage help to alleviate this (eg -20% rather than -3), by reducing the downside from building it in non-optimal places?

They do not have "ignore city defense".

Huh, good to know. In practice though this makes very little difference. The cultural borders
"Ignores city defenses" ignores only those bonuses from walls, not those from culture, and in practice guard station benefits are quickly superseded by cultural defenses. So the different is only really relevant when facing force shields, but even then it isn't really much of a bonus, because cultural defenses are high enough at that point that you still have to knock down the force shield and culture defenses with siege units in order to get high enough win chances to be worth attacking.

One of the AHR comments you have in the sheet is suggestions on tweaking defenses; going to a FFH-like system where cultural and military defenses *stack* rather than using whichever is stronger, and simulataneously halving the value of cultural defenses.

Agreed that this probably needs testing.

 

[davidlallen]

Would changing the water penalty fro absolute into percentage help to alleviate this (eg -20% rather than -3), by reducing the downside from building it in non-optimal places?

Before we start tweaking this for the AI, let us make sure that human players even like it.

 

[keldath]

hey guys, been away for a few days,

so - do you still need the fix for the interface for vista?

 

[davidlallen]

do you still need the fix for the interface for vista?

Yes please, this is the number one reported problem by DW users. Rockinroger has visited the DW subforum so perhaps you and he can work together to solve it. I will put out a new patch in 24 hours. Having the fix in that patch would be great. Just let me know your fee.

 

[keldath]

hey,
well my fee will be your everlasting thanks and worship.



ok here it is, but see now, in order to make this work - you have to delete the interface folder inside the modular folder, so this means you'll have to upload a new full version to make it work, sine there isn't a way to cancel this folder in the current 1.6.3 without deleting the folder,

unless, you wanna add a note to all those who get your new version to manually delete the interface folder.


p.s
been testing my version, again, yet on archipelago, got 450 turns, the entire tech tree was researched, no ctd.
though in one try i had a ctd, but - reloaded autosave, and there wasn't a ctd till i stopped testing after many many turns.
standard map size.

now testing the arrakis map.

p.s.s

testing over 200 turns on arrakis map, no ctd at all. standard map size.

 

[davidlallen]

You have my everlasting thanks. To get worship, you also need to do something like solving world hunger.

I took a plain 1.6.3 directory, made it read-only, and confirmed the "init xml" crash. Then I deleted modules/interface, unzipped your patch, made it read-only again, and confirmed *no crash*. That is excellent!

It seems that BUG mods also have a problem with user ini files. So I have asked for advice in this thread, on how to clean up the BUG related problem. When I have both solutions, I will put them into a 1.7 release.

 

[keldath]

well, i promise ill take a large McDonald's instead extra large

superb,happy that i did something good.


well - in 1.6.3 - we are using bug 3.6 - did they fix it in bug 4? (which is my 1.6.3.2).

on the bbai,
i will merge bbai 0/81 with the current sdk without the new stuff from revdcm, so we will at least have some progress with this part.
ill do it during the week.

cheers.

 

[Deliverator]

I've been working on two things audio related: unit select/order sounds and some soundtrack stuff.

This patch for 1.6.3 is designed to be merged with the main mod for 1.6.4. This is what is included:

+ Civilization Select and Order sounds for every faction - I'll open a separate thread giving the detail on these - the audio files are small so easily fit in the main mod.
+ I found I found 5 more "real" Dune placenames so I added them to the updated CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml since I was changing it.
+ Fixed nasty glitch at the beginning of Corrino diplo music - now fades in
+ Pave the way in Audio XML for the addition of 5 new tracks to the Music Pack

Download Link

Note: the 5 new Soundtrack mp3s and CIV4EraInfos.xml are not included - I will release them in an updated music pack.

 

[Slvynn]

Ow awesome, downloading now
Deliverator please check buildings section, i really need your help there, thanks

edit: oh those are awesome, Great!

edit 2: dont forget to cut end of Dune Variation. It contain sound of rain. I dont think it fit at start of the game

 

[keldath]

david - how about me uploading the new bbai merged with our current sdk?

ill do it now as fast as i can.

 

[davidlallen]

david - how about me uploading the new bbai merged with our current sdk?

ill do it now as fast as i can.

That sounds good, but please do check if it crashes at the end of the first turn on the large arrakis mapscript. You seemed to feel this was due to BBAI rather than other parts of RevDCM; I cannot tell.

 

[Deliverator]

It contain sound of rain. I dont think it fit at start of the game

To me it sounds more like the sound of trickling water running down into a catchbasin than full blown rain - I think it's OK. I've done enough audio editing for one weekend.

 

[keldath]

of course!

ill ran some auto plays, ill let you know soon.


edit: heck, its too complicated im affraid to merge the bbai 0.82. sorry.

 

[keldath]

ok guys,

im happy to say, that i got a solution to our sdk updating and unneeded parts:

i have found a way to get only the minimal components we are using, along with bug and bbai 0.81.

in other words,
i will remove the revolution components totally, and do some major clean up, i suspect this will , make our code lighter, and will not use many useless code that we have.
also, im certain that the vista incompatibility problems will go away completley , since ill remove all traces of modular loading from woc.
i will create the new code for the next release, and im 100% that this will be crash free, cleaner code.

and most of all, it will be much much easier to update the code for next versions, and we will not be depending on revdcm anymore, only updating bbai.

wish me luck dudes.

 

[Deliverator]

i will remove the revolution components totally, and do some major clean up, i suspect this will , make our code lighter, and will not use many useless code that we have.

and most of all, it will be much much easier to update the code for next versions, and we will not be depending on revdcm anymore, only updating bbai.

That sounds like a great idea if you can pull it off. It will stop the occasional issues people have where revolutions are enabled somehow. Good luck!

 

[davidlallen]

i have found a way to get only the minimal components we are using, along with bug and bbai 0.81.

That is great. Please do keep superspies. FWIW, there is already BBAI 0.82.

 

[keldath]

thanks guys,

im going at this step by step.

whats fwiw?,
i know theres 08.2, i got it, first ill compile a free rev sdk, then merge bbai 0.82.


super spies, well , ill do my best, if i wont take it directly from revdcm, ill use the old standalone.

also i hope i wont have problems with adding the tga indexsation.

i finished merging most files, not for compile testings.


do you guys remember the old koma13's code about danger count? - from what i know he said we arent using it anymore right? just wanna know, cause if we dont need it, ill remove it.


ive been wanting an independent sdk code for a long time now, got tired to update each time a new revdcm comes out...

 

[davidlallen]

whats fwiw?,

Sorry. For What It's Worth.

do you guys remember the old koma13's code about danger count? - from what i know he said we arent using it anymore right? just wanna know, cause if we dont need it, ill remove it.

AFAIK (As Far As I Know) that is critical. Otherwise, thopters carrying settlers will be scared to cross desert with sandworms.