Independent Civilization ideas

[T-mun]

I suggest that we name the sub-forum the C&C Compatible Civ Project, or CCCP. That acronym isn't being used anymore...

Very nice one And yes, everything you said in favor of this sub-forum is true, that's what I had in mind.

@jimmyh: if you can build something that is like Civ3 but better, without strange limitations and able to expand to new ways of playing, then I will use it, test it, and bring feedback. I'm even ready to pay for it. I can't be more supportive!

 

[Ozymandias]

Artificial intelligence. The elephant in the room. Everyone complains about Civ3's AI, and sometimes rightfully so, but this is probably the most difficult part to get decent.

I'd happily give that a logical design shot, based upon 3 layers of AI analysis:

• Strategic: overall strategy in a given game (essentially have "Build Often / Never" switches that work and can be changed by the AI in-game. This would be based upon overall goals as determined by "Flavor" flags with a strategic assessment.)
• Operational: How to optimally handle a "theater" of war given the above; and
• Tactical: How to dispose of forces given local conditions within the Operational context.

Best,

Oz

 

[Bowsling]

We should take precautions to avoid the disaster that was the CivV AI. Before we focus on making AIs with grand strategic goals that will be attempting cultural victories and other attractive "layered" AIs, we need to focus on getting an AI that knows when to build buildings, how to use units, how to properly manage its cities, et cetera. No point in designing a brilliant AI system that is functionally incapable of taking a city or researching a technology.

 

[Jimmyh]

@jimmyh: if you can build something that is like Civ3 but better, without strange limitations and able to expand to new ways of playing, then I will use it, test it, and bring feedback. I'm even ready to pay for it. I can't be more supportive!

Working on it!!

I'd happily give that a logical design shot, based upon 3 layers of AI analysis:

• Strategic: overall strategy in a given game (essentially have "Build Often / Never" switches that work and can be changed by the AI in-game. This would be based upon overall goals as determined by "Flavor" flags with a strategic assessment.)
• Operational: How to optimally handle a "theater" of war given the above; and
• Tactical: How to dispose of forces given local conditions within the Operational context.

Best,

Oz

We should take precautions to avoid the disaster that was the CivV AI. Before we focus on making AIs with grand strategic goals that will be attempting cultural victories and other attractive "layered" AIs, we need to focus on getting an AI that knows when to build buildings, how to use units, how to properly manage its cities, et cetera. No point in designing a brilliant AI system that is functionally incapable of taking a city or researching a technology.

AI is such a long way into the future, first things first are too have a basic game and the tools, so you guys can create some thing better than what you could in civ3.

 

[Jimmyh]

@Takhisis: I think I see the problem -


I suggest that we name the sub-forum the C&C Compatible Civ Project, or CCCP. That acronym isn't being used anymore...

I have sent a PM regarding this, not sure how long it will take tho.

 

[Takhisis]

I think it would be ссср/СССР, so we can make it stick…

 

[Balthasar]

Well, the CCCP part was supposed to be a clever joke, but the name Compatible Civ Project does have a ring to it, because that's the goal, isn't it? To create an editor that allows more switches to be pulled, perhaps a biq that allows different terrains and gameplay. I've always wondered if it would be possible to 'hack' sideways into it by way of the biq or exe files, or both - sort of like when the Goldblum character in Independence Day uses the satellite signal to access the alien ship. At some point, the interface between them is exploitable, one would think, allowing us to piggy-back extra information onto the already existing code...

But then, I don't know how to program; I just watch alot of SF.

 

[Takhisis]

People who program also watch a lot of SF.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

Customizable Civ Community Project CCCP

Come comrades!

 

[arkguy]

I prefer the 3D image of Civ IV, the ideal game would combine the best ideas and features of all the Civ games that is easy to modify and add things from this site into it.

 

[MPK]

I assume that what is wanted here is a new C3C-based platform, using 2D images that will allow for a maximum number of C3C game modding concepts and choices. To boldly take CIV3 to a new level.

If a 3D Civ game is wanted, you can stay with, or go to 4 or 5.

 

[T-mun]

I prefer the 3D image of Civ IV, the ideal game would combine the best ideas and features of all the Civ games that is easy to modify and add things from this site into it.

I assume that what is wanted here is a new C3C-based platform, using 2D images that will allow for a maximum number of C3C game modding concepts and choices. To boldly take CIV3 to a new level.

If a 3D Civ game is wanted, you can stay with, or go to 4 or 5.

I couldn't express it better

 

[Bowsling]

Admittedly, if a 3D engine is made, it may convince bored Civ4 modders and frustrated Civ5 modders to join us. That'd be the truest "C&C Compatible Civ Project", IMO: one that works with all versions of civ.

 

[Takhisis]

Yes, but 3D rendering limits map size and takes up a bunch of resources.

 

[Balthasar]

So called 3D engines, like those in Civs 4-5 only mimic what the C3 engine can already do: simulate movement on the game map. There are already little tweaks that you can do to give the C3C game a 3D feel, if you use maps with pre-placed terrain and units. You can, for instance, place a few units from Tom2050's vast immobile units sets onto your maps to make underlying resources twinkle and move, and one unit I've found a use for in almost every map I've made is the animated Waterfall. Virote Considon recently animated an exploding terrain Building for use in the Modzilla Mod.

In terms of this project, it comes down to programming both units and terrain. I've been compiling the ideas in this thread and will have Project Papers made on both subjects by the end of the week.

 

[Bowsling]

I'm not saying that we should waste our time on 3D. But we must also accept the fact that the majority of modders on this forum mod games with 3D engines. Only a small fraction of those could be convinced to come back to 2D-that-looks-3D isometric, no matter how awesome of a modding platform we build.

Of course, who needs the lost souls of CivIV and CivV modding anyways?

 

[Balthasar]

I'm not as pessimistic about the future of 3d isometric games, particularly this one, as you are, Bowsling. There are definite advantages to gaming in 3d isometric, and as we've seen with the Civ games, this format is waaaaay easier to mod. There are niches for every type of gaming: there are also internet groups formed around 2D isometric gaming, and if you look at the Civ 1 and Civ 2 groups on this site, you'll find that there are still some active users there, too. Even the venerable board games of our youth have lots of fans, and have even experienced a bit of a renaissance in recent years. Bet you didn't know this: some of the earliest mods posted in this group were Risk maps. I don't know how to find them anymore, but I've seen them. Always wanted to make a Monopoly Map myself.

As for me, I'd be happy to see more Civ 4 & 5 fans here. We can always use new blood (to feed on! Bwhahahahahahaha!).

 

[Takhisis]

You know what I think of those people:

Link to video.

 

[Balthasar]

I don't know what the tags on that video were, but the pictures of related videos that came up at the end will haunt me for the rest of the week.

 

[Jimmyh]

While you all go off topic and hijack this thread, I'll just give a quick update on things.

I've sent a PM to either get the current IndieCiv forums moved or a new one created in the Civ3 - Project & Mod Development area. I don't yet know when that will be complete or if it will happen.

On the development side of things I am currently rewriting the code that imports BIC files, before it would only handle BIC files that had every thing in them, i.e custom maps, custom rules and custom player data.

It now handles BIC files that are for example only a map.

There will also be a dialog popup where you can choose various parts of the BIC to import into IndieCiv, for example you might only want the techs from a BIC file or a map and it's resources locations.

I hope to have this complete some time around the weekend, at that point I shall probably update http://indieciv.codeplex.com/ with a new release.