IndieStone - Visual Tech Tree Editor

[Kruelgor]

They have far better things to be working on.

you and I disagree. Little Big Planet is the #1 selling game for the Playstation and the #1 highest rated game for all video games of all time, and for good reason. Maybe you should research it and learn why. There is a reason why SONY bought the rights to Little Big Planet, paid mega millions for it. If the Civilization series ever incorporates Little Big Planet ingenuity (instead of relying on coders) then the Civilization game will be on a whole new level FAR FAR surpassing any previous version of Civilization.

I've been playing video games for 30 years, much of it spent creating custom scenarios and maps for gaming communities. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Valkrionn]

you and I disagree. Little Big Planet is the #1 selling game for the Playstation and the #1 highest rated game for all video games, and for good reason. Maybe you should research it and learn why. If the Civilization series ever incorporates Little Big Planet ingenuity then the Civilization game will be on a whole new level FAR FAR surpassing any previous version of Civilization.

I know why. But Civilization is a far different style of game, and requires a well implemented and balanced base.

 

[Kruelgor]

I know why. But Civilization is a far different style of game, and requires a well implemented and balanced base.

Give me a break. That's a load of horse @#$@ I've been playing video games 28 years before you made your first CiV 5 post. If you can't see where I'm coming from, then I'm done talking to you.

 

[Valkrionn]

What? No it's not. The majority of Civ5 (and Civ4, and all other civs) play the game without ever touching a mod. If you do not realize this, you have no understanding of the community at all.

I do not care if you've been playing video games for that many years; I have far more experience making them than you ever will. A game must have a well designed and implemented underpinning before much time should be devoted to modding. What we have available now works, and DLL access is supposed to be on the way. Asking for tools more advanced than anything that currently exists for any game, while the base game is not up to par, is the mark of either idiocy, extreme narrow mindedness, or a vastly inflated sense of self-importance.

Given your prior posts, I would guess at all three.

 

[Kruelgor]

I do not care if you've been playing video games for that many years; I have far more experience making them than you ever will.

The REAL truth is if my idea were put in place, WE WOULD NOT NEED YOU - PERIOD. And we would have 10,000% more scenarios to play. That's exactly the real reason why people like you are against my idea.

So your advice is a detriment to the game, as far I see it. I believe your opinion and advice to be biased and to be ill advice to the detriment of the game. YOU do not have the best interest of the game at heart, but YOU instead have your own personal best interest at stake here.

NO! You do not dare want the average player to be able to easily create all the scenarios of their wildest dreams, then people like YOU would suddenly be worthless. That's exactly what it's all about.

You are not a genuine civ fanatic, no, not at all. You're a mod fanatic, not a civ fanatic, and willing to steer and mislead the game into the wrong direction. If you were a civ fanatic then you would endorse what is BEST for the game, not what is best for you.

 

[Tasunke]

I like cake

 

[Valkrionn]

The REAL truth is if my idea were put in place, WE WOULD NOT NEED YOU - PERIOD. And we would have 10,000% more scenarios to play. That's exactly the real reason why people like you are against my idea.

So your advice is a detriment to the game, as far I see it. I believe your opinion and advice to be biased and to be ill advice to the detriment of the game. YOU do not have the best interest of the game at heart, but YOU instead have your own personal best interest at stake here.

Yes you absolutely would. Your dream results in an endless sea of poorly designed mods and scenarios, with few to none jewels such as Fall from Heaven, Dune Wars, Planetfall, Road to War. Notice that none of those mods were created by myself, nor do I even include myself in the top modders; Nonetheless, since I am willing to actually put forth the work required to learn how, I will always be a better designer than you.

The game should absolutely be able to stand on it's own two legs before more time is devoted to mod tools that are in fact not required to do any form of modding. If you cannot see this, then I posit that it is in fact YOU who do not have the best interests of the franchise at heart.

Modding is not the basis of the civ franchise, even if it is a beloved part of it for a fraction of the players. The main aspect is and always has been the core gameplay.

 

[Valkrionn]

NO! You do not dare want the average player to be able to easily create all the scenarios of their wildest dreams, then people like YOU would suddenly be worthless. That's exactly what it's all about.

You are not a genuine civ fanatic, no, not at all. You're a mod fanatic, not a civ fanatic, and willing to steer and mislead the game into the wrong direction. If you were a civ fanatic then you would endorse what is BEST for the game, not what is best for you.

You could not be further from the truth. I welcome more modders; It means more content, more creativity, and a more robust community. I have spent hours answering questions and assisting new modders, simply because that's how I learned; I owe it to the community to do the same for others.

You, on the other hand, constantly demand tools that are nothing but handicaps, and consume development time better spent fixing the core game; You seemingly refuse to actually learn how to mod, despite claiming otherwise; And you do not accept help when offered.

YOU are a detriment to the community, sir.

 

[Kruelgor]

with few to none jewels such as Fall from Heaven, Dune Wars, Planetfall, Road to War.

If the tools I have in mind were in place, I would be able to name you a hundred equivalent or better for every one you can name. The reason you do not want to admit to this is either because A. You lack the gaming experience to comprehend, or B. the reasons I listed up above in previous posts.

I guarantee you with the right tools, I could obliterate any game scenario your imagination could come up with. 100% guaranteed. Not a single doubt in my mind.

 

[Valkrionn]

If the tools I have in mind were in place, I would be able to name you a hundred equivalent or better for every one you can name. The reason you do not want to admit to this is either because A. You lack the gaming experience to comprehend, or B. the reasons I listed up above in previous posts.

I guarantee you with the right tools, I could obliterate any game scenario your imagination could come up with. 100% guaranteed. Not a single doubt in my mind.

No, you could not.... As 99% of all mods are poorly made, extremely poorly balanced flights of fancy by the mod creator. Just look at civ4; The vast majority of mods are simply kitchen sink mods, attempting to throw in every possible unit/resource/civ/leader/whatever without any regard for how they work together. Without a cohesive structure, the mod loses any point. It is interesting for a few games out of novelty, after which the imbalances become noticeable and it loses the fun it had.

The simple fact is that most players are not actually good designers; The vast majority of suggestions I've seen for new Civ5 civs, for example, sound awesome... For the player. As an enemy, you would find them horribly broken. That type of design is innately flawed.

As for coming up with things my imagination could not dream of... That's hogwash, particularly as you seem to have an interest in creating simple scenarios based on actual history. First off, scenarios are never as complex; You could create new mechanics I wouldn't think of, but a scenario making use of existing mechanics? It'll hold my attention for at most one game. Second off, you're working out of history; Something anyone who wants to become a game designer (read: me) should be very well acquainted with!

That is entirely irrelevant, however. I've made my point. If you don't believe me, why don't you go back and look at Little Big Planet, or any of the Elder Scrolls games, or Civ4, or any other moddable game. Look at the sheer volume of mods available. Then look at how many players have played each one.

Quality matters, even in games where it is simple for everyone to create content. Your "Modding Utopia" is exactly like all other utopias; A pipedream that fails to account for the whole picture.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: This discussion will not continue.

 

[Valkrionn]

Moderator Action: This discussion will not continue.

My apologies for helping to drag it so far off topic.

 

[MouseyPounds]

For those still looking for this, magzhi kindly uploaded his copy as an attachment in another topic.

 

[primordial stew]

This still works! My techs.xml loads + displays just fine here.

However, over in civ5 (1.0.1.383 (237603)) there is a fault generated in TechButtonInclude.lua if the <Help> tag is not set, and the result is that it only shows the first tech, and some connection lines It doesn't matter that <Help> has a default of NULL set, without specifying it in each tag it bombs out. Another way would be to fix that lua file.

So maybe this will help someone out, like if anyone else is porting from civ4 to civ5

 

[chrome-rome]

Sorry to resurrect this (not really, since this is such a great tool). I have a problem, when loading my modinfo file, I come across the error "Input String was not in a correct format" for the file Civ5UnitIcons.xml. Does anyone know what this is referring to? The other errors referenced specific lines in the code.

 

[jmelnick]

does this also allow for the creation of images of the tech tree?

 

[Genghis.Khan]

G&K version please

 

[Irkalla]

The REAL truth is if my idea were put in place, WE WOULD NOT NEED YOU - PERIOD. And we would have 10,000% more scenarios to play. That's exactly the real reason why people like you are against my idea.

So your advice is a detriment to the game, as far I see it. I believe your opinion and advice to be biased and to be ill advice to the detriment of the game. YOU do not have the best interest of the game at heart, but YOU instead have your own personal best interest at stake here.

NO! You do not dare want the average player to be able to easily create all the scenarios of their wildest dreams, then people like YOU would suddenly be worthless. That's exactly what it's all about.

You are not a genuine civ fanatic, no, not at all. You're a mod fanatic, not a civ fanatic, and willing to steer and mislead the game into the wrong direction. If you were a civ fanatic then you would endorse what is BEST for the game, not what is best for you.

I bet you believe there isn't a cure for cancer because it isn't profitable enough too.

 

[Genghis.Khan]

I wouldnt bet against you, Irkalla

 

[lemmy101]

Sadly our house was burgled, several PCs stolen, and along with some Project Zomboid code (which severely screwed us up, let me tell you) all the sources for this and any other Civ 5 related thing were lost too - however if anyone has a working build I can't imagine it'd be too hard to decompile the sources using Reflector to make a new version that works with G&K (assuming from this thread it doesn't).